Season 5: Episode 4 Transcript
Keep Calm and Carry On: Navigating the FAFSA Rollout
Lee Coffin:
From Hanover, New Hampshire, I'm Lee Coffin, Dartmouth's dean of admissions and financial aid, and welcome to Admissions Beat.
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Seniors and senior parents, we are going to give you some insights into the never-ending delay in the release of the free application for Federal Student Aid, AKA FAFSA.
When we come back, we'll be joined by my colleague, Dino Koff, Dartmouth's director of Financial Aid, and Charlotte Albright, my producer and journalist extraordinaire from Vermont Public Radio once upon time. And the three of us will wander through the ins and outs of affordability and FAFSA. We'll be right back.
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So Charlotte, Dino, hello. Welcome back to Admissions Beat.
Charlotte Albright:
Hello.
Dino Koff:
Great to be here.
Lee Coffin:
Dino, you're like the recurring guest. It's like every season, the merry go-round swings back, and there you are again. But I think it speaks to the importance of financial aid in the way families think about college and affordability. And so I'm always glad to have a chance to talk with you about the ins and outs of financial aid which, in some ways, is very straightforward and, in some ways, is really complicated,
Dino Koff:
Especially this year, it just seems like it's been in the news so many times and for such a long period of time that it's wonderful to demystify a little and try to help map for families where to go and what to do and make it as easy as possible.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. So let's start there. So Charlotte, as someone who surveys the news landscape, you've been following this FAFSA delay pretty carefully and the reporting around it. So why don't we start with that? So this is a conversation that is really, I hope, helpful to high school seniors who are proceeding through the admission rounds with this big question of financial aid still unanswered. So, Charlotte, what have you seen in that news that Dino, and probably less specifically me, can comment on?
Charlotte Albright:
Well, I guess it's more about what I've heard. I used to be a public radio reporter. And when I was reporting for public radio in Maine and later Vermont, sometimes, I would file stories with NPR. And, generally, they were about higher education. And the guy that edited me and many other reporters from the field back then is named Cory Turner, who continues to be the higher ed reporter for NPR.
He's the guy that I follow, and he's almost carved out financial aid as a freestanding beat for himself. So people who really do want to get into the weeds on this can always go to NPR and look for Cory Turner's pieces. But the most recent one that I've seen has good news and bad news in it. So I want to run that by both of you. The good news is connected to the bad news.
So I might as well just quote a little bit from what Cory has said. He said that this year's FAFSA is the result of sweeping changes. And some of those changes, he says, are good. Congress wanted to expand the number of lower income students who qualify for a Federal Pell Grant. Check, right? Lawyers told the Education Department to use a more generous formula to protect more of a family's income.
Check-ish.
What we're hearing is that not only did these changes force a delay in the receipt by colleges of this FAFSA information. But also there was a mistake, a $1.8 billion mistake. They didn't adjust for inflation. So they're fixing that mistake, which forces more delays. So that's all I know. I know enough to be dangerous. Dino, what do you think about the good news? And talk a little bit about the bad news.
Dino Koff:
So you did a great job recapping there. So this is a new FAFSA, a new free application for federal student aid, which this is the largest overhaul since the Reagan administration. So we're talking a significant amount of time. And since the Reagan administration, we've had other changes to the FAFSA, but nothing ever like this.
So changes in the formula, changes in how people are filling it out, transferring data from the IRS trying to make things so much easier for families, which in theory is wonderful. It's just taking us a while to get there. And this is the bumpy year. So for the seniors listening to this and parents listening to this and college counselors listening to this, we're hoping that this is the bumpy part. And once this is solved it's much smoother moving forward. And remember, you're filling out a FAFSA usually every year. So even though this is bumpy this year, we need it to get smoother. Even if you're a senior, this doesn't go away.
Lee Coffin:
Dino, let me ask you just as I'm listening to you say all that. So in a normal cycle, this would have gone live on October 1st, right?
Dino Koff:
That is correct.
Lee Coffin:
But not that long ago, it went live on January 1st.
Dino Koff:
Totally correct.
Lee Coffin:
Okay. So we're delayed. But in relation to the not so distant past, not so far delayed. But who triggered this review? You say it's the first real review since the Reagan administration, which was 40 years ago. Is this the Department of Education seeing a moment to update? Is it Congress? What prompted this update?
Dino Koff:
So this started with Congress about three years ago. This was a law that was passed that was a FAFSA simplification law.
Lee Coffin:
Okay.
Dino Koff:
And it encompasses many different things, not just the FAFSA, but it also talks about transparency from colleges, where we're asked to standardize language that we're putting out to families. So it's not just the FAFSA but this change, and Charlotte really said it very well, you have the good. And it's been a struggle, but it's not going to be a struggle forever, and we just need to get through this and get to a point where families can just log on and be able to fill out a FAFSA.
That is, when we talk about FAFSA simplification, I have seen families where it's worked very well, and it has taken five minutes to fill out a FAFSA-
Lee Coffin:
Wow.
Dino Koff:
... which is remarkable. The bad part is the families that it hasn't worked as well for, it has taken a half hour to get to a point, and then you have to stop and make a phone call because there's some glitches. So in the big picture, this is going to be a good thing. And I think the Department of Education has done a very good job of trying to say who needs to fill this out with different infographics online, being able to answer what parent is giving the most support. If you're divorced and remarried, who needs to fill this out?
And I think there are really good infographics out there in multiple languages, but this is just such a big change. And financial aid has always been scary. And Lee and I have talked about this, how do we get the message across on affordability? And so it all starts with financial aid, and we're asking people to fill out forms that they've never filled out before. And now, you have to get different user IDs, and you may have to approve who you are to get the user ID. And it's complicated.
And this has been a big shift, and we just all need to work on it together. And I know we are working very closely with families. And, honestly, we're trying to say it's going to be fine. And, hopefully, schools are able to say that to families we're all in the same boat together trying to get this federal form.
Charlotte Albright:
So Dino, I always love your optimism. Somebody in your position at a college always looking on the sunny side of the street. I don't want to pour cold water on that, but there are two levels of delay. One is the delay that families had in getting the form to fill out, but there's another delay that's going on in terms of when, you, when financial aid officers making decisions with their admissions officers in colleges when you get the data about the student so that you can make a decision based on that data.
And if that's not going to come until the first half of March and the students have to get that data to make their choices and decide where they're going to go on May 1st. It seems like a big crunch.
Dino Koff:
Well, first of all, I think I read that more than three billion students have filled out a FAFSA so far, which is a great start that three billion students have been able to.
Lee Coffin:
Dino, just jump in quickly as you say that. So for listeners, the FAFSA is out. So it's not like the release has happened. But the mechanics of it are a little less smooth than they might've been. But people are able to start to plug in their data into FAFSA. That's an important milestone.
Charlotte Albright:
Yeah. Do it now.
Dino Koff:
That's the advice that we're actually saying, is you can do everything that you can, and the schools will help on the backend. And what I mean by that is, and Charlotte what you were saying, we're not receiving the data yet. So in the past, a student might log on in November, fill out an October, November, fill out a FAFSA. Three, four days later, we're drawing down the data into our system, and we would have it.
So students who were able to log on in January and do it, or even now, we're not going to receive that until what looks like the first half of March. And honestly, we'll see when this comes to us, and it's going to take time because it's a new layout. We're dealing with technology from our computer systems that have to change. So this is something that we're going to face. By us not getting the data, that's the scariest things for families because they want to know that we've received it.
And they're also wanting to know, what does it say? Help us interpret it. And that part is difficult because we have nothing to look at other than what we have been collecting through the process. So that's where I just keep saying hopefully by the second half of March. The first half we'll get it. And loading 30,000 files is going to take us just a little bit of time. We'll be able to do it and figure out where we're at.
And, honestly, it's going to be a very busy six weeks for financial aid administrators across the country just to get this and process and to do our best to make sure that families have everything that they need to make a decision. And that's why I am always highlighting that, do whatever you can up to a point.
We know there are people who have made mistakes filling it out. And once we receive it and once the student receives access to be able to make changes, we'll work together to make sure we correct the mistakes. But it's to a point where families just have to trust. "I filled this out, and the schools are going to get it."
One positive is a student can list 20 schools now. As a parent, I'm sitting there thinking, "Oh my gosh. I don't know if I could manage 20. Help my child manage 20 places applying both for admissions and financial aid." But we know that happens, and it's great that students will be able to put 20 different schools in, submit it when it's processed. They'll be able to say if they have some more. They could add more. This is a huge increase from the previous FASFAs where you are always managing who did I send it to, and how do I send it to more? Well, 20 is a great start.
Lee Coffin:
Well, I'm going to just jump in as the admission voice and say, "Don't apply to 20 places."
So if you've got 20 plus applications out there, uh-oh. But it's interesting to hear that the FAFSA has the capacity for that kind of volume if you are in fact surfing around that many applicant pools. So, Dino, is it fair to say to seniors that by early April when we move into all the accepted student open houses that pop up around higher ed, it's reasonable for people to have at least a financial aid estimate or a financial aid award?
Do you see your peers on track for that happy overlap between "I've got in" and "I have a financial aid award," or do you think there's going to be some places in April that are still going to be catching up?
Dino Koff:
Really good question. And we always talk about what higher ed speak is and terminology. Schools like Dartmouth that meet full need 100% demonstrated need with financial aid, meaning we're going to cover what you need with actual scholarships and maybe a work employment component.
This does not impact us or our peer schools as much because we will deliver awards. We just don't know who the funder is going to be. Will it be the federal government with a Pell Grant? Will it be a Federal Work-Study? Will it be Dartmouth employment? Will it be Dartmouth scholarship? But we feel comfortable just like early decision that we've been able to navigate it, and we will have awards just like we have other years, and we will continue-
Lee Coffin:
Let me pause you right there, and translate. So for parents who are thinking about this alongside their children, what I heard you just say is for institutions that meet 100% of demonstrated need, this should be less disruptive. The checkbook may pull from different lines, but the amount is going to be able to be verified.
Dino Koff:
Absolutely. Families can trust if they qualify for $60,000 worth of aid, they will receive $60,000 worth of aid. And the question is, later on, if we need to, we might say 55,000 comes from Dartmouth scholarship, $2,000 comes from work, and $3,000 comes from a Federal Pell Grant.
Lee Coffin:
Okay.
Dino Koff:
But upfront, we would give a $60,000 award.
Lee Coffin:
Okay. So that's the good news for that small band of places that can meet 100% of the demonstrated need. For the rest of higher ed that does not have that kind of aid policy, what happens there?
Dino Koff:
So we're incredibly lucky, Lee, to be in that small band. But for schools that aren't, that's where if a school is not collecting financials from using another mechanism, it's very difficult by middle of March to be able to guarantee I'm going to get out a financial aid award, because if a school has need-based aid and they're counting on the FAFSA, it's going to take a while to process all of that. So that-
Lee Coffin:
So what's your advice to those families? That feels less optimistic. Charlotte's right. You are a glass half full kind of guy. But more places fall into the category. We meet some need, but not all need. And if your college list tips that direction, what happens? Charlotte, is that making sense to you as I tee that up?
Charlotte Albright:
Yeah. That was a question I had because taught in some schools like that where students are really on tenterhooks about whether they can go at all, not whether they have to get an extra job, but whether they can go at all. There's that question. And then, there's a second question I would have about schools that offer merit-based needs. So if we can deal with one of those at a time, that would be great.
Dino Koff:
I think the merit, 100% merit-based schools are the easiest to tackle. So I think I would tackle that first. A merit-based schools may not be looking at the FAFSA at all. They may be just looking straight at their, what I call, talent or ability profile. So whether it's testing GPA, leadership, experiential learning, it could be athletics, it could be tuba playing, whatever the school is basing their merit SA, that shouldn't be impacted as much by the FAFSA. It still could be if they have a component of merit and need. But for the most part, schools should be okay if they're 100% merit.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, because merit's not based on FAFSA, generally. Yeah.
Dino Koff:
Others though that maybe have a little bit of need and merit, a combination, I think trying to get as much information ahead of time from the school, whether that is going online to a financial aid net price calculator, which schools hopefully have updated because families should be able to log on and check out what's the net price, what is it going to cost me to go to a school? So hopefully, a family could do that because I know there's families that are incredibly, this creates incredibly anxiety. And, hopefully, that's one thing families to do to be reassured, "Okay, this is still doable." It's not perfect, but it's at least one step, and you can always follow up with the school after you do it also.
Charlotte Albright:
I'm so glad you mentioned that because it reminds me of something Sherri Geller said to us when she was advising families: "Have these discussions. Figure out what your negotiables and your non-negotiables are. Get all that done while you're waiting for all this paperwork to come through," because if you do that and you set your boundaries, when you finally find out how much money you're going to get, you don't have to have that discussion. You know whether that fits into your umbrella or not. And I just think that's so important at this point because you can't do everything at once at the end of March.
Dino Koff:
We're focused right now speaking about seniors doing it, but this is a perfect homework assignment, Lee, for juniors, junior families, you have the time and you're not worrying about filling out a FAFSA right now, and filling out applications. But you're just starting a college search. And if financial aid is important to you, what a wonderful time to be able to log on without a lot of pressure and be able to fill out net price calculators from other schools or many schools, and just feel it out. Where would I fall? Is this school offer merit-based aid? Does it offer need-based aid? Is it a combination? How much do I qualify for?
Lee Coffin:
And just to be clear, a junior should not be filling out FAFSA.
Dino Koff:
At this point, no.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Don't go download that and start filling in your information on the free application for Federal Student Aid when you're in 11th grade, like the net price calculator, fair space. FAFSA, don't go there,
Charlotte Albright:
Dino, do students have to do this again after they're freshmen? Do they have to do it as sophomores and juniors and seniors?
Dino Koff:
So great question, and that's why we need this. We want this to be the only rough year in bumpy road to getting this submitted because most families are going to do this for the entire career of a student. And the goal is that it's going to be easier next year. And some families, if they don't accept federal aid, they may not fill it out. But for the most part, we're looking at least a four-year relationship filling out this form.
And remember, this is the gateway to federal student aid, whether it's a Pell Grant which are for low income students, federal work study, which is a shared... It's a way for the government and schools to pay students to work. And this is also a gateway to federal loans, which some may be subsidized, where the government is picking up the interest while a student is in school or unsubsidized where interest is accruing. But I say this because this is what qualifies you, this form.
Charlotte Albright:
Does FAFSA guide you in making decisions that don't have to do with federal money?
Dino Koff:
Some schools, that may. That's a great question, Charlotte. Some schools are using this form. And as I said earlier, there are schools that are only using a FAFSA to guide them.
Charlotte Albright:
So that's why Cory Turner at NPR said, in some cases, students will be on the edges of their seats waiting to find out everything about what they're going to get from a college.
Dino Koff:
Absolutely. And I think this is the toughest part is it's really hard for schools that are only using a FAFSA to come out with an estimated award because you just don't know what all the components can look like. Again, a school meeting 100% demonstrated need. We know what a family qualifies for. We just don't know the sources. But at least, we can get a number to families.
Lee Coffin:
And Dino, just as a reassurance, so for many places like Dartmouth, we also require the CSS profile, which is a companion to FAFSA around financial aid. Talk a little bit about that so that the senior families understand that document, which is a bit more comprehensive, that we have that.
Dino Koff:
Essentially, most schools will have a checklist for families. And on the checklist are going to be what forms are required, whether it's an institutional form, CSS profile, FAFSA, taxes, things like that. So the CSS profile is online, and it's a College Board product that goes a little bit more in depth than the FAFSA where I said, "I watched a student do it and it took five minutes to fill out a FAFSA." It was amazing. Boom, boom, done. It's going to take a little longer for the CSS profile. It's going more in depth where a family that is divorced and the FAFSA may be saying, "We're only going to have one contributor," and the contributor is this person who's giving the most support, financial support to a child, where the profile is actually going a little bit deeper, and it's going to say, "Okay, we want parent A and parent B." And we want each one to fill out. And if they're divorced, they're two separate forms so no one sees anything.
But this one's going to take 20 minutes to fill out, maybe 30 minutes. And you have your taxes in front of you, and you're literally typing in numbers. And there are text boxes though to explain unique circumstances that you want colleges to know about. But with this form going more in depth; this is why a school like Dartmouth can come out with our early decision financial aid awards. It can come out with our, what will be regular decision at the end of March. And the FAFSA is essentially just telling us, does the student qualify for federal aid? We already know what demonstrated needed.
Charlotte Albright:
So when you just painted a picture there of people with their tax returns spread all over their dining room table, it just gives me chills to think about that, because some of us have applied for mortgages, and you know how that goes. You have to go dig up your tax forms. And that's one good-news thing about FAFSA that the IRS feeds FAFSA directly now.
Dino Koff:
So that was one of great, Charlotte, that was one of the big changes. And that's why when I sat with the family and we were able to fill it out, everything worked perfectly, and it took five minutes to fill out. You're literally saying, "I consent to all of this," and you press a button. And next thing you know, everything's transferred in, and there's nothing for you to... You don't have to type in anything, which is just wonderful. Again, when we say good news, bad news, this is the good news. We are hopefully when we get the kinks taken out, taken away many barriers to being able to fill out an eligibility form.
Lee Coffin:
And what I hear you saying, Dino, is it's a type of pre-populating, I'm guessing you type in your social security number or tax ID number, and it syncs FAFSA up with your tax records.
Dino Koff:
You've already proven who you are when you get the ID, and that behind the scenes is syncing up with the IRS.
Lee Coffin:
And would that be true like your two, three, four for renewals? It's a much more straightforward renewal? I asked because I just got an email from my TSA pre-check, which was, I got it 10 years ago and it says, you're expiring in August, click here to renew it. And I thought, "Well, that looks easy." So is it a similar kind of thing where the feds have figured out a way to pair tax returns and FAFSA in a one-stop shop?
Dino Koff:
Absolutely.
Lee Coffin:
Okay, that's good.
Dino Koff:
The streamlining is there to make things easier and for people who something is wrong, and it doesn't pair it the first year, the goal is by year two that you've typed in your information, you've given more, and you're able to have your taxes behind the scenes to come in. And let me just say, remember, for seniors listening, we're using 2022 data. So we're hoping that the taxes are already in, of course. And we're obviously past the April deadline and the October extension deadline.
So for most families, this is going to be in. And if you're a junior listening to this, we're going to use your 2023 data. So for families that are filing, let's say, by April 15th, great. It's going to be there for you next fall hopefully. And you'll be able to transfer that data. Again, higher ed speak, we're using prior, prior year taxes because it allows you to fill out the tax forms in October.
Your taxes are already done. And so that's why we're using data from 2022 if you're a senior. But let me say, we know life happens. And this is where communicating with schools is really important. And we saw a lot of this in COVID where you had families with medical issues, and income drops or unfortunately death. 2022, may not be a picture that's accurate compared to where we are today. And so you still use 2022 data, you don't make a change will help or any school will help create an accurate picture, and we can use something called professional judgment.
Charlotte Albright:
I'd love to go back to the other good news about this, which is that I gather there is a wider swath that the Pell Grant will be available to in terms of their incomes, if I'm right about that. And if that's true, it seems to me to be a reminder that we... And we say this almost every week, but it's a reminder not to be fooled by the sticker price of a college. No matter what's going on with FAFSA, how long it takes, it seems to me, do you know that there are a lot of people who think they can't go to a place like Dartmouth, and more of them will be able to next year, than could be before? So can you speak to that a little?
Dino Koff:
Well, first, let me say maybe other than the community college level, most financial aid on percentage is going to be coming from an institution compared to just the federal government.
Now, at a community college, it's very possible that a Pell covers, depending on the state you're in, it may cover most of tuition or a lot of tuition. And there may not be a lot of institutional money. But what I can tell you is statistically in New Hampshire where Dartmouth is located, we're expected in this state to have 12% more Pell students in '24, '25 Pell eligible students.
Lee Coffin:
And what does that mean, Dino? So if you're a Pell student, what is that?
Dino Koff:
Well, so if you're a Pell student, it is a measurement that it seems to be used. It's not 100% accurate. But when we say a low-income student, many times we're looking for students who are receiving a Pell Grant as an indicator. And that means that a student is going to qualify for a federal grant, which does not need to be repaid for their cost of attendance.
So hopefully, along with the Pell, they may be getting some other grant aid maybe from a state grants and other institutions. And so, the goal for the government was to make this easier, which other than these bumps will be easier. But it's also to expand the Pell population, which is helping the lowest income students the most.
Lee Coffin:
And how much is a Pell Grant?
Dino Koff:
Well, we don't have the tables yet. That's another little bit of a little bump in the road. But we're looking at over $7,000 this year for a maximum Pell Grant, which-
Lee Coffin:
That's an increase, right? Dino? That's more than has been true.
Dino Koff:
Traditionally, as this has risen significantly over the last, I think 7,300 is this year. And I remember when we were stagnant for years or very small increases, so being up at $7,300 for a maximum Pell is wonderful.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah.
Charlotte Albright:
What does this mean for foreign students, Dino?
Lee Coffin:
I was just going to ask that.
Dino Koff:
So the international population, for the most part, unless there's a green card, students are eligible to fill out a FAFSA and eligible for federal aid. But an international student who on an international passport without a green card, they will be not having to fill out a FAFSA. So this really hasn't impacted as much. We're still collecting all of the forms we normally would, which would be a profile and taxes from the country that the student is applying from. But the international student process has not changed because they've never had to fill out a FAFSA, and they're not eligible for federal like a Pell grant or federal loans. So it's business as usual on that side.
Lee Coffin:
So if I can sum up what I'm hearing in this conversation for seniors, the FAFSA is now posted. The launch has had some startup challenges. I keep thinking about Obamacare when that launched way back when and good idea…but the mechanics of getting that machinery running took some time. And so that's what I hear saying, Dino, is that it needs to be refined a little bit. But the upshot here is the process has been simplified. It's more user-friendly, and for the lowest income families, it will generate an increase in the amount of scholarship that the federal government awards.
Dino Koff:
Absolutely. What you said for a summary is great. I just want to add will be because for some families-
Lee Coffin:
Will be, yes.
Dino Koff:
... they may be listening to this and being like, "This was not my experience." My heart goes out to the families that have worked so hard on these forms are being diligent and getting more and more frustrated. I will say another positive. It isn't perfect, but the government has just announced yesterday that they're committing, I think, $50 million to customer service and keeping call centers open in multiple languages, helping schools, trying to get us technology updates sooner rather than later. So this is so big that it's very difficult to roll something out immediately, and do it well. I'm hoping by next year at this time, we're looking back and we're saying, "Wow, incredible ride," and so much easier for families.
Lee Coffin:
And that's a good segue, Dino, to a little bit of advice to our 11th grade friends and their parents. So October 1st, 2024, FAFSA should be live for you to complete liquidity split with no delays. But let's rewind. That's still many months in the future.
So if you're an 11th grader or the parent of one, so you've mentioned the calculators are sitting there as a first tool to help frame this big question of what's it going to cost. In our premier, we talked about don't wait, start now. So what's your advice as a financial aid officer to families that know financial aid, eligibility will be a big part of this discovery phase that they're now in? How do they get rolling?
Dino Koff:
It's incredible the language, you just use the discovery phase because as you're doing an admissions discovery phase, the actual discovery phase on the financial aid side is that calculator, and finding out is this a merit-based school? Is this a need-based school? And understanding what do I need cost-wise? And having that conversation, and Charlotte mentioned this earlier, having the conversation with the family members, so there's no surprises around money, knowing that we have said this over many different seasons now, that, yes, many schools are very expensive. But we have to be talking about what the net price, what's the cost to me?
And to do that is the discovery phase now. And that's going online, finding out merit-based, need-based, putting numbers in and seeing, "Okay, I'm eligible for up to 40,000 at this school." This could be doable or it's only doable if I get outside scholarships.
Something that I've always said to juniors is talk to a senior after their senior night in May or June at their high school and find out what organizations are students applying to at their school for outside scholarships. How cool is it that the Boston Red Sox have a community service scholarship where they give every high school $1000 community service scholarship in Vermont?
So I'm guessing they do it in New Hampshire and Maine, in Massachusetts also. But I didn't know about it until somebody else applied for that. And so, what else is out there for the student to apply for? You're not going to apply in your junior year, but you're going to set up where to apply for in your senior year. So that's all about research that you can do now as you're looking at a school. And, Lee, I'm sure looking at the discovery side on the admissions, it's maybe not as easy as typing numbers in a calculator, but it's being able to see I'm in range for this school. Well, if you're in range, let's see, financially, is this going to be a fit?
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. I think for the admission discovery where it intersects with financial aid, there's this calculator that Dino has just described. And then I think more for parents probably, there's some questions around is the institution need blind, or is it need aware?
Need-blind means the admission decision is made without any consideration of a student's ability to pay or need for financial aid. And need-aware means, to some degree, financial aid could be one of the factors that the college considers in making an admission decision.
And for places that are more substantially need aware, that could be a bigger factor. And for places that are more mildly need aware, less so. And that's a good question to ask during campus visits with admission officers like which policy need blind or need aware or it's kind of synonym need sensitive. That's not an action step so much as just an awareness of how this particular campus moves through the admission process.
And what it's really a reflection of is how much financial aid resources have been endowed over time and, therefore, can be used to meet the need. And then the second definition that's important to discover is when we've already touched, does the campus meet 100% of demonstrated need, which Dino has just described?
Some places will say, "Yes, it's 100% for four years." Some places will say, "Yes, it's 100% for your first year." Some places will say, "Maybe, we meet 100% depending on your merit." And some will say, "We cannot do that." We will meet as much need as we can. But you might have a gap between the cost and the financial aid award. And in the spreadsheet, you put together which college hits which policy and just be alert to that as you get going. And Dino, does that sound clear?
Dino Koff:
First of all, absolutely. Going back to need-aware versus need-blind, I am somebody who is always saying, "If you know you need financial aid, apply for financial aid when you apply for admission" because it's difficult to navigate financing after you've been admitted because some schools have policies that you can't apply for two years. And others may say, "You're not eligible for four years." And people always worry, "Well, I may not get in." But it's always important to know if you need the aid, it's heartbreaking knowing somebody gets into a school and then realizes, "Oh, I can't go." I didn't apply for aid. So that's part of your spreadsheet, as Lee talks about.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. I've worked at need-sensitive places and the policy is often if you apply for aid, when you're an applicant for admission, you may come up no need. But two years from now, your need may change, and you're still allowed to apply. If you apply, there's a no need candidate. You can't apply later. So you do it at the beginning, and that sets the policy for your next four years.
Charlotte asked about international students; this is especially true there for places that are need-sensitive for non-US citizens. If you did not apply for aid for the first year class, that decision is usually permanent as you move through your undergraduate experience. For need blind places and there are only seven of them in the US that have need blind admission for non-US citizens, Dartmouth is one of them just as a little commercial.
But for those seven, international students who are applying for aid and their admission decision is rendered without considering that degree of need. And that's true for four years. So, Charlotte, any last questions for our in-house financial aid expert before we let him get back to his FAFSA surfing?
Charlotte Albright:
No. I just have to assume, Dino, that you must have been an economics major because I'm always wowed by the ease with which you talk about this stuff. You translate it so well. So thank you so much.
Dino Koff:
Definitely not economics. Maybe, a little government and history. But I will say that it is always a complex issue talking about money with families and whatever we can do to make it easier and positive. This is a positive change that is just a little bit bumpy right now.
Lee Coffin:
We'll keep watching the space for news, maybe breaking, as the Department of Education continues to roll it out. And as the situation works, we'll come back with another episode that helps seniors in high school and their parents navigate this moment.
("breaking news" music)
Charlotte, we have some breaking news. So I spoke too soon. So since we recorded this episode about 10 days ago, the story has continued, and we've got advisories from the National Association of College of Admission Counseling and the Department of Education hitting the press about FAFSA. So, Charlotte, what are you seeing that we should spend a few minutes considering?
Charlotte Albright:
So you just talked about this Association of College Admissions Counselors—the acronym is NACAC. And not surprisingly, they have on behalf of colleges and applicants been sort of leading the charge asking the Department of Education to make some adjustments because this enrollment deadline of May 1st is difficult.
As we just said, if colleges don't get information and students don't get information that they need to make these financial aid awards, NACAC has asked colleges to consider delaying their deadline for students to respond to their invitations. First of all, let me ask you, is that relevant to Dartmouth?
Lee Coffin:
It's not immediately relevant to Dartmouth or places like Dartmouth that don't rely on FAFSA as the sole financial aid application. And I think that's the really important part of this.
Many places do. I would say the majority of colleges and universities use FAFSA as the sole determination of need and how to award it. And for everybody in that space, May 1st is becoming a really slippery enrollment goal because as they get information March into April, the likelihood of having the pairing of an admission officer with financial aid gets harder and harder to meet.
For the smaller group of institutions that use FAFSA in combination with the CSS profile and Dartmouth is in this group, we are less constrained. And I think Dino was explaining this during the original podcast, we are able to calculate need based on CSS profile.
We cannot determine eligibility for federal need. But that's just rearranging the elements. It's not changing the amount. So for places like Dartmouth that are profile institutions that meet 100% of demonstrated needs, so two key pieces, the deadline does not seem to be in jeopardy because we're going to be able to offer admission and offer a financial aid award that at some later moment might shift to, "Oh, look, you have a Pell Grant." But it's still grant aid. It's just where does the money come from.
Charlotte Albright:
Well, the good news for people who are applying to some of those schools in which these deadlines are starting to become difficult to meet, NACAC has established a website. So if schools are going to change those deadlines, NACAC is good place to find that information. It's nacacnet.org.
And the other good news is that the US Education Department is also at least relaxing some requirements. So the colleges and universities dealing with this delayed information can focus only on aid applications. And this gets into the weeds a little bit. But there are other things that the US Education Department asks colleges to do to verify all of this information. And they're going to relax some of that so that at least colleges can focus solely on financial aid applications and awards.
So in addition to the 50 million that Dino told us about and the concierge of counselors that the education department is deploying, they're still trying to ease some of these burdens as much as they can. And as you say, we're going to keep following this because this may not be the last word on it.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. I think what we're witnessing is the calendar and the rollout are not aligned right now.
Charlotte Albright:
But people are trying to fix it as best they can. I guess that's the final word.
Lee Coffin:
That's right. And I think that's right. I think that's right. And we'll come back with updates as they present themselves. Charlotte, as always, is watching these headlines. And for now, this is Lee Coffin and Charlotte Albright from Dartmouth College. Thanks for listening.