Season 4: Episode 13 Transcript
Interview Tips: Let Your Life Speak
Lee Coffin:
From Hanover, New Hampshire. I'm Lee Coffin, Dartmouth's dean of admission and financial aid, and this is the Admissions Beat.
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Seniors, part of your storytelling happens orally. A lot of colleges, an interview is part of the elements of your application. Sometimes it's required, sometimes it's recommended, sometimes it's optional. Sometimes it's on campus with an admission officer or a senior interviewer. Sometimes, increasingly, it's in your home area with an alum, a library, or a Starbucks. Wherever the setting, it's another chance for you to bring yourself into the file and this time live, in person. And I often say to students who are nervous about interviews to just take a breath and remember, this is a life skill. When you apply for a job, whether it's a summer job or the job of your dreams 10 years from now, you'll need to introduce yourself via a resume and ultimately in a conversation with the person making a decision. And a college admission interview is an example of the same idea where you'll meet someone you probably don't know and need to represent your story in a conversation where you're having an exchange of information.
Sometimes the interviews are informational and you can have a conversation and that's it. Sometimes they're evaluative and the interviewer will be adding notes that go into your file. And in that second example, you really want to bring your true self to the conversation. This week, we'll meet Audrey, a senior in Los Angeles, California, who is a member of the community-based organization, College Match. I reached out to the executive director a month ago and said, "Love to do a mock interview. Do you have a charismatic senior who could come on, someone not considering Dartmouth, but could serve as a representative of high school seniors staring at this interview with a little bit of nervousness?" And my goal is to show you it's not like going to the dentist where there's a big needle waiting to give you a numb face.
The interview is a conversation, and in a minute we'll meet Audrey and you will hear an actual interview between me as an admission officer and Audrey as a prospective applicant. And I think you'll be both reassured that it really is a conversation and you'll get some guidelines on what questions we ask and how a senior might answer them. So we'll be right back.
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Today we're going to have a mock interview with Audrey, who is a senior from Los Angeles, who is applying to colleges as an applicant to the class of 2028. And for proof and advertising, she is not an applicant to Dartmouth College. But what I wanted to do with Audrey is share with you what an interview is. We're going to have a conversation, and at the end we'll have a conversation with each other about how the interview went, which is a little atypical. You don't usually get the interviewer saying, "So how'd you think that went?" But I'm really interested to see how Audrey experiences her first ever interview for college admissions. So Audrey, welcome to the Admissions Beat. Nice to meet you.
Audrey:
Hi, nice to meet you.
Lee Coffin:
So we're going to shift into interview mode. For purposes of this, it's going to be like I met you at the library, at a Starbucks, at your high school guidance office on campus. Lots of different venues where an interview might take place. So let's do a little play-acting in this regard as if you just came to me and we're meeting and we're going to start the interview. So Audrey, thanks for coming in to have a conversation with us, and I always love to give applicants a chance to start off by introducing yourself. And there's a Quaker saying, "Let your life speak", that I always like to channel by way of, I'm giving you the floor to tell me anything you want about you, your background, your family, where you are, where you hope you're going. So Audrey, let your life speak. What's the Audrey story?
Audrey:
Okay, so yeah, my name is Audrey Kang. I am Korean. I was born and raised in Los Angeles. I've actually never left. I've only ever stayed in the U.S. I've never left, I've never been to Korea. So I think because of that, I felt during the middle of my childhood, my culture was really... I was really confused, especially because, yes, LA is such a culturally diverse and amazing place, but I am a minority. But I feel like you feel that really intensely at so times of your life.
And I think, but because of that, I feel like my culture is now something that I prioritize so much because I love that I'm Korean, I'm very proud. But other than my culture, I think that I'm a very extroverted and loud person. I am someone who likes to advocate for myself and for what I think is right. And I think because of that, I fit into different situations very well. And if there's ever a situation where I think, oh, maybe this isn't like the best thing that can happen, or maybe this isn't something that I want to happen. I'm not afraid to speak up for myself. But I think, yeah, that's just me. That is Audrey Kang.
Lee Coffin:
Let me back up a little bit. So you were born in LA and you've lived your whole life in Los Angeles, and you left California, or have you really been in Los Angeles for 18 years?
Audrey:
Well, yes. Basically the only time I've ever left California was through my College Match program, and that's when they flew me out to the East Coast and I was able to visit some colleges. So I was so grateful for that opportunity, but that was my first time ever on an airplane. So yeah, born and raised, always in Los Angeles. So yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Tell me about that experience. What was it like, your first flight, and you came to the East Coast and California and the East Coast are really different geographies and places, but what was that like for you?
Audrey:
It was such a amazing experience. I think that was my first breath of independence because my parents were very... I forgot to mention this in my introduction, but I am the only daughter in my family. I have one older brother and one little brother. So I'm stuck right in the middle as the only daughter. And I think because of that, my mom and dad were really protective over me. So going outside, I always have to walk on eggshells, like "Can I go outside and play with my friends?" But because of College Match, they realized, "Oh, my daughter's growing up and she's going to be able to go to college outside of California." So it was really fun and it was just finally being able to see how I can see myself as an independent woman instead of just an independent girl. Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. And did you like being so far away from home?
Audrey:
I think there were pros and cons to it, but I think I definitely did like the East Coast a lot better than California. I think mostly the weather, I like cold weather.
Lee Coffin:
No, because I think a lot of high school seniors, as you come to the admission process and the idea of going away, whatever away means, gets real when you get on a plane or you go on that long car ride and you find yourself, oh, I'm in a really different place. And part of the journey is asking yourself, can I handle this degree of independence? But also how did it feel to go this far away and think about coming back and forth this many times? So it sounds like that was appealing as you started sorting out your hopes for college.
Audrey:
Absolutely, yes.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. So tell me, all right, so you also said that you are, I love that you said you're loud and extroverted. So give me an example of being loud.
Audrey:
Oh, I think anywhere I enter a room, you can hear me, you can see me. I think my personality is very big sometimes. I'm not shy, of course, there are times where I can get awkward. Everyone has their moments of like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have said this, or maybe I should have said this, or one or the other. But I think my personality shines most in bigger groups of people because I'm not scared to say what I want to say. But also, I think one of my biggest things that I've worked on when I was growing is always making sure to include people if there are people who are being excluded. Because I remember when I was younger, I once upon a time was the person being excluded and it was really hard for me to be included. So I think due to my personality being so big, it can help really control the room in a way where everyone feels like they belong, even if they think they won't. Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
And does your big personality translate into your extracurriculars?
Audrey:
I think it definitely does sometimes or oftentimes it does, because I've heard from my advisors in my extracurriculars, "We know you're there when you arrive. It's very obvious." So I think, yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Tell me what you do. What clubs are you a member of?
Audrey:
So I have actually my own organization. It's a non-profit. It's called Assist Her Organization and in short we call it AHO. And my organization, we raise funds to make sure that people in my community, so Koreatown or just LA downtown can have their needs met for women in particular. And usually it's medical help, so we've done projects such as donating hygiene kits to women's shelters. We're also working on donating wellness kits to Kaiser Permanente. We're actually partnering with them to donate these kits. We also made two medical pamphlets about women's health. So stuff like, it's called PCOS. It's like an ovary syndrome that every one in five women are susceptible to. But because there's not a lot of awareness about it, we decided to make actual official pamphlets and also donate those to Kaiser. So yeah, that's what my organization's about. We also post on social media about such diseases or conditions to help educate women about things that are not as well-known.
Lee Coffin:
So when you said to me that you use your voice and you speak up, this is a good example of that, where you have a cause that you are championing. And did you found this organization?
Audrey:
Yes, I did. Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
And are you pre-med?
Audrey:
I am planning to be, yes.
Lee Coffin:
See how I did that? So your interest in this extracurricular space points towards someone thinking about medicine as a potential academic interest in college, but also as a career. So why did this cause emerge for you to become its advocate? What was your inspiration?
Audrey:
So I had a mentor. She recently has passed, but my mentor, I met her over the pandemic. And I think during the pandemic, especially for people my age, when we were just entering high school, such an important time, but we were all stuck at home. I met her and I learned her story, and basically she was diagnosed with cancer. It was breast cancer, but she wasn't diagnosed until a lot later into the process, because even though she kept telling her doctors, "Something isn't right, I don't feel well," the doctors kept like, "Oh, it's because of your hormones. Oh, it's because you're a woman. Oh, it's because you're on your period. You're just overreacting." Hearing that, I realized there are so many stories where women's health are disregarded or put aside because they're being overdramatic or like, "Oh, it's nothing. It's your hormones."
And I felt like that was so wrong. And so when I actually did some research onto it, I realized there are so many stories about that: "I was misdiagnosed by my doctor. I was diagnosed too late, so my symptoms got even worse and worse to the point where it was unmanageable." So I realized, what can I do as a little high school girl at the time? What can I do to make sure that this isn't something that future generations have to go through? And I realized at the time, really, what can I do? It's the pandemic. But through growing into my high school years, I realized, no, I can do something. I can make an effort and it'll show change. Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
And as you give me that wonderful answer, what do you think it tells me about you as a person?
Audrey:
I think it shows advocating is one of the things I treasure about myself, and I think that shows in all of the work that I do. If there is something wrong, I will never, ever hesitate to make sure to say, "This is wrong, let's fix it, or let's work on it." Group efforts can always make change, and I think that shows. My extracurriculars, especially this one shows that.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, no, very vividly. Well, tell me about some of your other extracurriculars.
Audrey:
I volunteer at Kaiser Permanente as a side thing. Yes, I do that. I also do some other... Sorry, I can't think off the top of my head. I've done a lot of science-related extracurriculars because it is related to my major as well. So I've worked with a volunteering tutoring organization at Koreatown, and I helped, it's called STEMspire. It's helping middle school kids get inspired to go into STEM by teaching them little projects. I've also have gone out on science competitions and participated in them and want to... It was really fun. I think a lot of them, as much as it shows like, oh, I have a drive for science, I also have a lot of fun doing them. Because I think a lot of them are related to helping people. That's what I love doing, just that's what I realized, that I do really do like doing. Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. No, it is a very clear signature. As you're introducing yourself and your extracurriculars as a union of science and service come together really clearly in your story. So when you imagine, jump ahead, four years college, X years medical school, what type of medicine do you imagine yourself practicing?
Audrey:
My goal is neuroscience.
Lee Coffin:
Oh, see, I didn't expect that. That's interesting.
Audrey:
Yeah. So when I tell people that, they're like, "Really? That's really hard, it's really difficult." And I know that, and I've been hit with that multiple times. Like, "Are you sure you want to do that?" And I always tell them, "Absolutely", because sure if you do have any questions, which you might have, but I've been inspired to go into neuroscience because of my grandfather and my mother. Because my family has a history of brain-related syndromes or disorders. And because I've seen how much that affects both my mom and my grandfather, I realized what can I do to really make an effort to bring the change that'll help people like them?
Lee Coffin:
Well, Audrey, it's so interesting you just framed it that way because you gave me a very similar answer to your advocacy around women's health, where your mentor was ill and you asked yourself, "What can I do to make a difference?" So there's a synergy in both of these examples between you seeing a moment and moving towards it in a very proactive way. I thought you might've said that you were thinking about women's reproductive health or being an OBGYN or a pediatrician, but that's interesting that you went with neuro. You're in high school, things could evolve over the next few years, but what's interesting as you describe your interests is there's clarity. Not every high school senior knows with a degree of confidence, this is where my interest is. Have you been a science person since you were a little?
Audrey:
That's actually the funny part. I was never really a science... No. I loved reading. I loved writing. I was a little bookworm, but I think once I started getting into middle school is when I really started liking more science related topics. Of course, my love for literature, reading, it will never stop. I love doing it, but I think high school, middle school is really when I started getting involved with science related things. Yes.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. So let me go back to lit for a second. So what are some of your favorite books? What really speaks to you when you read a book?
Audrey:
I think, I personally don't love non-fiction books or anything like that, but I do love, there's this one book, it's called, oh my gosh, I cannot think about it on the top of my head... But it's like, oh my gosh, if I remember, I'll bring it up. But I think one of the books is called Butterfly Garden. It's a fiction book about crime. The whole story is based on women surviving trafficking and the mindset that women get put through. And I think that really inspired me and really resonated with me. I've never been in that situation, but I've always been scared as a woman to go outside during the night or walk around when it's a sketchy neighborhood. And I think reading that book made me realize the psychology behind that, and it was very interesting, that book. Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
I also hear women's studies comes through your examples as well. You're thinking science and neuro wouldn't shock me someday to say, "Oh, Audrey's majoring in biology and women's studies", that you would pair these things because so many of your experiences are framed around that very personal narrative of a woman's view of these topics.
Audrey:
Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Does that ring true as I observe that?
Audrey:
Yeah, sorry. Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. All right. So neuro, pre-med, if I said to you, "Audrey, you cannot major in pre-med or science", what would you pick?
Audrey:
I remember there was a major that I saw, it was related to women's study. Absolutely. I think that is something that I'm extremely passionate about. Of course, science is something that I really love and enjoy, but outside of science, I realized how much being a woman has affected me and also other people. People who are not women will never understand the true experience it is to be a woman. So how can I make sure that other people and just society as a whole can help instead of making it geared towards women? Just make it an equal footing for women because I feel like we deserve that at the very least, from all of our history and stuff.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Well, and you mentioned you were the only daughter between two brothers, and so there's this familial connection to this topic as well.
Audrey:
Yeah, absolutely.
Lee Coffin:
Okay. So let's talk about senior year. So your end of the fall term, you're applying to college. Tell me about what are you studying this year? What classes are making you really excited when you wake up and you say, "Ooh, I get to go to school today and I'm looking forward to period four", what is it that gets you up in the morning and you say, "This is fun. Let's go."
Audrey:
I think the main classes that I'm really excited about this year are honors environmental science. I am in that course, and also my school has a course called Medical Interventions. It's under this, I don't know if it's a program, but this organization called Project Lead the Way, and our school offers it and medical interventions, it's in the name. We just go over different medical interventions and follow this fictional family and see what diseases they're going through. And we have to pinpoint which disease by researching about all the symptoms and whatnot. Really fun. We also do dissections in different labs there, so it's really, really fun.
Lee Coffin:
So it's a science course or it sounds like it might be science and a little bit of social studies?
Audrey:
Yes, yes. It's a bit of both. Yes. And honors environmental science, because it's not an AP course and it's more honors, we do a lot of projects and right now we just ended our project called eco column, where we had to make different ecosystems and stack them on top of each other and see how that affected. Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
And what's your least favorite class?
Audrey:
AP Government. I never hated history, but something about government, which is really funny because I wanted to do law maybe two years ago, but this course really made me realize, man, I'm not cut out for this.
Lee Coffin:
It's funny you didn't hesitate. You're like "AP Government." So what is it about that class that is just not singing your song?
Audrey:
I think it's a difference in teaching the material. My teacher, she's very... I love her. She's an amazing teacher, but the way she teaches isn't geared towards someone like me, which I feel like repetition is really important for me to learn, keep on repeating and able to see everything. I'm a visual learner, but she does it more like lecture style, so it's very, and I cannot blame her. I'm not going to make sure she changes her teaching style for just for one student. I know it works for a bunch of other students as well, but I think because of that, AP, even though I want to be more science-based, a lot of my time was I had to make sure, because I wanted to get a good grade in the class, I had to focus a lot of my time onto AP government, which I think it was just the dread. I was just like, "Oh no, tonight I have to study for my AP Government class, even though the material is so difficult. Oh my gosh." Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
No, I asked that question because we all focus on what do we love, but sometimes the things that aren't resonating as well are also instructive because you can step back and say, in your case, how do you learn, what are the ways you do your best work? And I think those are clues. As you think about college, what places give you that freedom to explore what you want to explore? What classrooms are more the norm so that what you're experiencing in that one class is a good lesson for this is the environment where I do my best work and where I need to be me. If I said to you, "Celebrate your nerdy side", what would you celebrate?
Audrey:
Do you mean do I celebrate it or if I...
Lee Coffin:
No, just if I said, "Celebrate your nerdy side, Audrey." When you geek out, what are you geeking out about?
Audrey:
I think I geek out a lot about music.
Lee Coffin:
Music. Okay.
Audrey:
Yes.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Tell me more.
Audrey:
So when I was younger, I was actually not a huge music person, but I think I became a huge music person, I'm very grateful, because of my grandfather. He took me to go watch the opera Carmen at that big stage. It was amazing. I've never seen anything like it. Like I said, back then, I wasn't really a big music person, but just seeing the opera singers and the actors carry so much emotion and say so much through just body language and their voice. It wasn't even in a language I could understand because I think it was in Italian, but I was just like, I get it. I get the story. So because of that, I got more into music. So right now I think I can play three musical instruments. So I love...
Lee Coffin:
What do you play?
Audrey:
I love music. I play guitar, ukulele, and piano.
Lee Coffin:
Oh, interesting. And which came first?
Audrey:
I learned piano when I was a little kid. I completely gave up. I had no fun doing that. And then I re-learned it during high school, but in between that I learned ukulele first and then guitar. Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Wow. And are they equal in your affections and your talents?
Audrey:
I think I definitely prioritize guitar more now.
Lee Coffin:
Okay.
Audrey:
Piano was just like, I like it. I'm not really good at it. And ukulele was just like, I love ukulele right before I got the guitar. Because I think guitar has a lot more versatility to what you can play.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Ukulele feels fun when you say it. Well, and it's interesting, you surprised me by starting with opera. That was not where I thought we were going to go. But it's interesting because I don't know that there are a lot of high school seniors who have any awareness of opera and the storytelling that it represents. So that's a really interesting way of thinking about the role of music in your life and the way the instrumental pieces have come in. So when you've got a guitar, if I handed you a guitar right now, what would you play?
Audrey:
There's this song I've been really into, I actually learned it two days ago. It's called Pages by, it's like W-I-M-I, Wimi. Very good song. I love it so much. But yeah, I recently learned it. Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
And what genre is that? Is it pop? I don't know Wimi.
Audrey:
It's like soft indie.
Lee Coffin:
Okay, okay.
Audrey:
Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, yeah. Interesting. So Audrey, as we're talking, you have a lot of really interesting themes going on. You do. You're talking about growing up in Koreatown and you're talking about opera and pre-med and neuro and women's health and guitar and ukulele. Would you describe yourself as a versatile person?
Audrey:
I absolutely think yes, I do. And I think a lot of it comes from just, I like jumping around everywhere. What I like is what I like and what I don't like is what I don't like. I'm very not strict, but I think, yeah. That's something that I have. I think I was born with it, so when I do like something, I get really, really deep into it and I like jumping around with the things I like. So yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. If I were interviewing your classmates and I said, "Tell me about Audrey, what would they tell me?"
Audrey:
I think they would say I'm loud. They would say I'm loud. And I think they would say I'm pretty creative. And I think plenty, plenty is one of them as well. Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
What makes you happy?
Audrey:
I think being with my friends and family, and especially these days, I'm really happy when I'm around my grandfather.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Tell me about your grandfather.
Audrey:
So like I said, he's actually affected so much of my life, now that I'm thinking back. Because I'm older now, when I was a kid, didn't know any of this but now that I know all the experiences, he's influenced my life so much. He made my love for music. He actually was a doctor at Kaiser Permanente, which is where I volunteer at, so he's influenced that. My love for pre-med and science, I think was inspired by him. And right now, or about two years ago, I think he was diagnosed with dementia. And at the time my dad had to go to work, my mom had to take care of my little brother, and my older brother was at college, so I don't want to say burdened, but I was now forced with the responsibility of being his main caretaker.
So every day after school or every day during the break, I would have to go to his house or to his nursing home to make sure, I had to cook for him. I had to do his chores and laundry, clean his house, turn on music, turn on the TV, make sure he takes his medicine, just make sure he doesn't do anything because dementia is really hard. I've heard this saying multiple times. It's very hard for person who's diagnosed, but it's also hard for the people around them because it's just sometimes, I think it gets really hard if person... If I keep repeating things and the person can't remember. But I think that also built a lot of my patience during that time. Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Well, and there's also caregiving for your grandfather and your journey with him through dementia is also a preamble to your pre-med interests in neuro.
Audrey:
Absolutely.
Lee Coffin:
You've got this very personal connection to this topic. Do you have any questions for me about college admissions?
Audrey:
I think one question that I always wanted to ask admission officers is what makes a student stand out the most you think? Let's say completely disregard academics or GPA or extracurriculars, what do you see? If you read the essays, what comes out first and you're like, "This is the person that I want at our college"?
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, great question. And I love that you set aside the academic piece when you asked your question, because I think a lot of people focus on that first and sometimes exclusively. And then it ignores the idea that if you're applying in a selective space, most of the people have the academic credentials to be competitive. And the place where they often stand out is in the authenticity they bring to their storytelling. And it could be storytelling through the written parts of the application where you choose a topic and you introduce yourself through that. But the interview is also a hidden opportunity for you as an applicant to put a spotlight on the things you care about. And often as we've been talking, you see me making observations about, oh, we talked about this and now we're talking about this. And there's a parallel or a connection to the topics you're introducing that stand out.
So in your example, we're talking about broadly medicine and whether you're working with women's reproductive health or you're thinking about dementia and the advocacy in both spaces, you're seeing areas of impact, where you call yourself loud and you're using your voice to amplify topics that matter. And so that's what makes people stand out is reading a file and being able to say back to you, whether I just did and have you hear it and say, "Yeah, that's me." Because you want to be you in the application, not create a cartoon character named Audrey who's a pre-med who says all the things you think I want to hear as opposed to sharing yourself through the application in all of its various components in a way that helps me meet you. Helps me imagine how this college helps you get where you hope to go. And also broadly, when you join a community, I start to wonder what voice does this person bring to this campus?
Where will we find her from the first day through commencement, four years out? Where are you going to be? What kind of community member, what presence do you have? That's what stands out, is the more evidence you bring in all the different parts of the file, the more I get to say, "Clearly I understand who applied." I have a person that goes with all these As, and I have a way of saying to my colleagues, "This is the candidate who's applied for admission and this is what she cares about." And I think that last comment is something, whether it's an essay or an interview, being able to bring forward what you care about. I was about to say the word 'passion' and I stopped, but I'm going there anyway. I think a lot of admission people talk about passion, like find your passion. And you might say, "I'm in high school, I don't have a passion just yet." I would say you do have passion. I've heard you describe it and whether you call it passion or purpose or advocacy or using your voice, it's there. Is that helpful? Did I over-answer that question?
Audrey:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Lee Coffin:
Audrey, it's been fun talking to you. Thanks for spending some time with me introducing yourself and helping me. Is there anything I haven't asked you that you hoped I might invite you to speak about yourself?
Audrey:
Not that I know. I think I went over almost everything about myself in such a short amount of time. And thank you for giving me this opportunity.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, you're welcome. When we come back, one of Audrey's mentors from College Match will join us and we'll have a conversation with Audrey about the interview we just had. We'll be back in a minute.
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So joining me in the post-interview spin room is my colleague Erica Rosales from College Match. Erica, welcome back to Admissions Beat.
Erica:
Thank you so much. It's so great to be here.
Lee Coffin:
It's always great to have you. And thanks for introducing me to Audrey, one of your students. And for listeners, I reached out to Erica bit ago and I said, "I'd like to do a mock interview and do you have a charismatic senior who could come on and have this mock interview with the Dean of Admission and not be intimidated by it?" And you successfully cast the role with Audrey, but you listened to the two of us have this interview and I thought we'd give her some feedback on how she did. And this is her first interview. And I would say just to start, you did really well.
Audrey:
Thank you.
Lee Coffin:
You gave me a lot of follow-up opportunities, which is always really as an interviewer, I had a list of questions I was going to ask you and I did not ask them in the order I was expecting because you kept introducing topics that brought me in new directions and it made it conversational as opposed to question, answer, question, answer like a tennis match. And did you feel that, Audrey, as we were doing, did this feel more conversation than Q and A, back and forth?
Audrey:
Yes, absolutely.
Lee Coffin:
Did that surprise you?
Audrey:
A little bit, but I also just assumed it would be a bit awkward if I just like, "yes, I do this." And was just like, okay, next. Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. But I think some students do that. They get caught in, they've prepared answers to the questions they think we're going to ask. And so you ask a question, you get an answer, you ask another question, you get an answer. And I think my interviewing style is always to disrupt the script and to get you into a rhythm that goes wherever it goes. And Erica, what did you hear as you were listening. You know Audrey so this is a little bit, you have an inside perspective on the person I was meeting for the first time.
Erica:
Well, Audrey, congratulations. That was so fantastic. I cannot believe that that was your first interview with Admissions, you're so brave for doing this. So thank you for saying yes. I really enjoyed hearing the interview and just being the fly on the wall, so to speak. It was a conversation. You made it personal and also you were willing to share things that might be vulnerable. So going back to that authenticity that is so important, it was shining moments. There was some moments where you described things and you were willing to share what inspired you, even though there were things that were personal and that just I believe brings the interviewer in, it brought me into the story. It made me want to continue talking to you a lot more. So congratulations.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, I agree. And as an interviewer, I follow you. So if you go somewhere personal, I will gently follow you there to see if you're still comfortable talking about whatever the topic is. And if not, I would've backed up and gone in another direction. But you brought specificity to your answers, which is also really important. You just didn't say, "I'm pre-med", and leave it at that. You had really good examples of not just an interest in medicine, but in people. As feedback, what I would do as the interviewer when we were done is type up some notes summarizing the conversation we had that would then go into, so if a college is doing the evaluative interview, the notes become the record of the conversation we had. And it sits along with the recommendations from teachers and college counselors in the file. And what you were really quite effective at doing was illuminating these interests you have in ways that drew me in as a conversation partner.
I learned some things; I love that. Whether reading an essay or I'm doing an interview and someone teaches me something, and you did that as you talked about medicine and the people, your mentor and your grandfather and your mom in particular for whom you've been a witness to their medical condition. And you're asking yourself, "Okay, how do I take what I'm learning and apply it? So keep doing that in future interviews because you have depth and it's true. You're not making it up. You're not just telling me, "I'm pre-med", and leaving at that. You have really rich examples of why it's relevant.
Erica:
Lee, I have a question. I oftentimes suggest to students if they're going to an interview to bring a resume, and obviously Audrey went beyond the resume, which is fantastic. Because there was a moment there where you asked her about her extracurriculars and she was like, "Wait a minute." She forgot about a few things. But is it helpful to bring a resume to the interviewer?
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. And if this were in-person, yes, you would've had a resume or you would've filled out a little interview card listing some of the things. But what you saw, as feedback, Audrey to the point that Erica just made in the extracurricular part, you talked about the group you founded and then you stopped. And I said, "Are there other ways where you...", and then you kept going into more science. And then guitar came much later when I asked, "What makes you happy?" I think you said, "Music." So I think in future interviews, just think about what's the suite of things I do that I want to make sure I get out in this conversation so that you see your range because the word 'versatile' came up at the end and you are. But I think bringing things forward, take as much time as you need to answer a question and tell me what you need me to know.
And if you can't remember, that's fine. I think a lot of the students get really nervous in the interview and sometimes that leads to being tongue-tied. You were not. But like I asked at the very end, "Is there something I skipped that you wanted to talk about?" Be confident about bringing me back to some topic and say, "Yeah, you know what? Actually I didn't tell you about being drama club vice president. And one of the other ways I'm loud is I like to get up on stage and perform." And yeah, I think that's a good tip, Erica. Also, the other thing I really appreciate when I asked the very first question to introduce yourself, you dove right in and said, "I'm Korean. I grew up in LA, I've not really left LA." And I think that, the richness of your background in Koreatown, you could have said a little bit more had you wanted to, but I really appreciated that that was right out of the gate.
You said, "Here's me." And those are the kinds of things we're interested in knowing, how has your life experience wherever you live, listeners, how has the family, the place, your school, your community, your church, your identity, how are things evolving as you move through childhood, high school and looking forward? Those are the threads that an admission person is really hoping to know more about as we meet you. Erica, you know her so you can answer this question in a way I can't. What would you have said, add one more thing to the list of topics. Did you think she represented herself in full?
Erica:
I believe she represented herself in full. Yeah. But the one thing, and I think this was challenging because you were doing it just for, we weren't doing it for a specific college.
Lee Coffin:
That's right.
Erica:
It's something that didn't really shine through. And I think it's important that students do in an interview is that they go in knowing why they're applying to that college. You tried to do that, Lee, when you brought up women's studies, or you're bringing up maybe some other classes or other majors that Dartmouth has to offer. Obviously she didn't apply there, but there are perfect opportunities to bring it up. Even when she talked about going out of state with College Match and maybe she had visited your college. So there are places, and obviously Audrey could have done any better because we were not talking about a specific college. But I think it's important to highlight.
Lee Coffin:
I think that's an excellent point. Thank you for raising that because, right, in an interview where I'm representing College X and Audrey has applied to College X, that would've been a question I would've said. So tell me a little bit about what interests you in this place, its program, and I didn't go there because we weren't talking about a college specifically. But yes, in a non-podcast interview, I would've said to you, "Audrey, so why'd you apply? What is it about us that attracted you as an applicant?" And depending on your own degree of interest in that college, you want to really lean into that answer. And so if you're interviewing at your top choice or your top few choices, put your foot on the gas pedal and really sell it. Tell us what makes you intrigued, happy, butterfly in the stomach. Yeah, good catch, Erica. Thank you.
Erica:
Yeah, and then the other piece too, just if you do have, because oftentimes colleges will have alumni interviewing students. So if you know that that's going to happen, I love that you already had a question prepared when Lee asked you at the end, "Do you have a question for me?" That was an excellent question, but I do think if it is an alum, it's important to ask. "Can you tell me why you enjoy going to that college?" Bringing that person in so that they can share their experience. Because it's also personal, it's informative. You can also get something out of that interview by asking an alum who went through that. And obviously an alum might've been there 20 years ago, but it's still great information.
Lee Coffin:
Audrey, how about... Do you have any questions for me about the interview as we went through it? Did you have a moment where you were like, "Why is he asking me that?" What was your experience as the interviewee?
Audrey:
Personally, I realized a lot more that interviews are going to be super—the interviewer is going to direct everything you say. You answer the question and you move on. It's not like that. And I think what I enjoyed most is I was able to have more freedom in what I talked about. It wasn't only, what did you do at school, what were the extracurriculars you did, what were your scores on these tests? It was genuinely, what do you enjoy? And I think advice to listeners who are listening in, talk about something more than what's on your academic records and stuff. Be personal. That's what they want to hear. They want to know you, not just your test scores.
Lee Coffin:
Bingo. I don't need to ask you that. I have that out already on your application, so I would never ask people. I tiptoed towards it when I said, "Tell me about your senior year." But really I was more interested there in how are your wheels turning as you meet this senior curriculum in your medical interventions class? Another great example of, I'm thinking about this as my academic interest, and you're leaning right into that senior year course and giving me examples of science and social studies coming together in a really hands-on way. So it was a really great answer to that. But yeah, I don't need to know. "I got an A in history and I got an A minus in French and I got an X on the SAT", that's redundant. Use the time to highlight your personality is my best advice.
Well, Audrey, good luck. It was fun meeting you. Erica, thank you for introducing us to Audrey and to our seniors around the world in the class of 2024, getting ready for the interview as often the last piece of the college admission process. Take heart in what you just listened to. Audrey was a great avatar for the interviewees this year to let your life speak, to be true to what interests you, and to leave the conversation with some sense like, yep, I introduced myself to this person and they've met me in my own words.
This is Lee Coffin from Dartmouth College, and we'll be back next week. So see you then.