Season 3: Episode 7 Transcript
How Will We Pay For It?
Lee Coffin:
From Hanover, New Hampshire, I'm Lee Coffin, Dartmouth's dean of admissions and financial aid. Welcome to the Admissions Beat.
For many families, affordability is the non-negotiable element of a college search. Just you can't move forward without understanding and answering a key question, how will we pay for it? So, you can fall in love with the campus, but if financial aid is going to be the key ingredient to make that undergraduate experience possible, then we need to have two processes run simultaneously, the exploration of college, and the programs and the places they represent, and a parallel conversation about how do I apply for and receive need-based or merit aid to make this journey something we can afford.
I remember my own family going through the college admission process and the financial aid process at the same time, and it was confusing and my dad and I had to figure it out in real time and make sure we had all the information we needed to make an informed decision about my undergraduate experience. I carried that perspective with me as a dean, as an admission officer, and as a podcast host.
What I hope to do today is to give all of you that reassurance that you know how to maneuver your way through what can be a complicated set of forms and formulas and varying policies around the different colleges that you might be considering. As always, news you could use, we are going to give you some tips to help you know what questions to ask, what data is meaningful, and how to look at the financial aid award when you get one and understand that your need has been met or not.
This week we have an encore episode from my previous podcast, The Search, where my colleague Dino Koff, Dartmouth's director of Financial aid, and our colleague, Erica Rosales, from College Match in Los Angeles, joined me for a conversation about financial aid that is designed both for juniors, as a search begins, and for our friends in the senior class who are on the brink of offers of admission and financial aid awards that will come with it, and to give you some tips on how to be thinking about financial aid at the beginning and how to make sure you have the information and the award you need by May 1st to be able to make an enrollment decision.
So, we're joined today by my colleague, Dino Koff, who is the director of financial aid at Dartmouth, and by Erica Rosales, who is the executive director of College Match in Los Angeles. Erica, let's start with you just really quickly, tell us a little bit about College Match.
Erica Rosales:
First of all, thank you so much for inviting me to this very important conversation. College Match is a college access organization that has been operating in Los Angeles for close to 18 years now. I've been with the organization for 15 years and I've really helped the organization grow, but it has also has helped me grow as a professional, so that I can advise students in finding their best fit and particularly their best financial fit. So, College Match works with low-income, mostly first-generation students, students who have done everything in their power to get to a four-year college. Most of our students are students who attend large public schools in Los Angeles and they have big dreams. I see a lot of me in them. I myself am a first-generation college graduate. I graduated from a big high school in Los Angeles from Garfield High School.
Honestly, I did not know what I was doing, but I knew that I needed to get to college. But I also knew I needed to follow the money. What we give our students is I don't want them to feel like they're getting to college by luck or that they're just out there on their own. We really give them the tools to navigate the college application and financial aid process, because both of them are super important. We gave our students trips to the East Coast, thank you so much Dartmouth, because you've always welcomed our students and given them such great visits. We give them SAT prep and then we provide them individualized college application and financial aid support to get them into the best college for them with the most financial aid.
Lee Coffin:
Great. Like you, I went to a big public high school, first in my family to go to college. I remember getting my financial aid award opening it up, gasping that what I saw as a scholarship covered the whole cost of attendance for that first year, and I couldn't believe it. I now know they were meeting 100% of my demonstrated need, but as a 18-year-old in that happy moment, I just saw a lot of zeros on the award and it made me really happy. So, helping admitted students go from this early part of April all the way to May, to figure out what have they been offered? Can they afford it? Does it make sense? It's going to be a really important conversation. Dino, let's start at a really practical place. A student gets admitted and, in most places, the financial aid award comes concurrently or pretty soon thereafter, and student, or a parent, guardian, opens it up. What are the elements of the award that somebody should be paying attention to right out of the gate?
Dino Koff:
Unfortunately, they're not standardized. It would make life a lot easier for students if we could have the same components in an award letter. For example, if all schools could have an estimated cost of attendance, and that term is basically all your educational expenses. It will show you tuition and fees, and housing, and food, books and supplies, transportation, that's a cost to get to your school and back, and miscellaneous items, you're using shampoo at home now, we want you to use that, personal items, things like that, in college.
That's all makes up the cost of attendance, which we would hope would be on everybody's award letter, but unfortunately that doesn't happen. So, when you get your award letter, hopefully you're looking at what is the total cost? You're filling out these forms and you're looking at the results of these forms, what is your family contribution? What is your student contribution? What is your parent contribution? Then you're looking at your financial aid that's offered. Did I qualify for scholarships? Did I qualify for grants? Work, hopefully there's a work component, loans, and is that in the award? Then you're hoping that you see, from colleges or universities, what's the net price? And what am I responsible for as the student? What is going to be the actual cost? Not here's all my awards, but what is the cost of the school minus my scholarship? That allows me to look at the award and compare offers, because I know here's my total cost.
Lee Coffin:
Erica, as you hear Dino lay that out. Do many of your families, most of your families understand that logic? Do they get trip on the difference between tuition, room, and board, and total cost of attendance?
Erica Rosales:
One thing that I learned early on when I started working with College Match, because when I started 15 years ago, I was advising students, but what I started learning was that if we were not involving the families from early on, then it was very difficult to get them to understand what that total cost of attendance and what the net price was for them. So, very early on, we started involving families beginning junior year, because financial aid is based on a family's ability to pay. So, you do have to fill out these forms. There are forms that are very intimidating, because FAFSA, the federal government, and then obviously also the college side and all of our students all fill out the CSS Profile. Those are two big applications. And they're asking a lot of questions that many of our families don't feel comfortable revealing to people that they don't know. But just once we explain to them the process and how these calculations are made, then they can start believing that perhaps there are people out there who want to invest in their children's education just as much as they do.
Lee Coffin:
Okay. So, we have the cost of attendance and, Dino or Erica, if the aid form doesn't share that, where can a family find it?
Erica Rosales:
When a college doesn't include that, we are left to going out on a website and looking for that information on a website, which complicates things even further. Because here you have Institution A offering you perhaps $15,000 to cover tuition, but then you don't know that you still have to pay for room and board. You still have to pay for those incidentals for books. And you have to come up with your own calculations based on your own research. So, that complicates matters even more during a very short period of time. You have about, what, maybe four weeks, if you're lucky, to make a decision, and by the time you have all your offers in front of you, you're left with maybe two weeks to do all that comparison. So, it's two weeks of doing a lot of math.
Lee Coffin:
Dino, would it make sense for anybody who has financial aid as a non-negotiable part of this decision to make a checklist for themselves that might say, "Okay, I got into five colleges, I'm going to have five columns and I'm going to... Either it's on the form and it's straightforward, or I have to dig a little bit on a website to fill in some of these blanks." Books would be a line. If you're a student from Montana and you're applying to schools on the East Coast, somehow you have to get back and forth a few times a year. So, travel would be another one.
Dino Koff:
Sometimes, it's just as simple as a spreadsheet. We talk about listing the components, tuition, and fees, and housing, and food, books, and miscellaneous items, transportation. We're just saying, let's list out the total cost of attendance. If it's five schools in the example you just gave, what is the cost for that student for all five, the total cost? Then let's subtract the scholarship, put it right on the spreadsheet, and that's how you get the net price for all the schools. Then you know, okay, School A is going to cost me out of pocket $12,000. School B out of pocket is going to be $8,000. But I'm not talking about loans at this point, it's just total, what is it going to cost to my family? That really helps demystify and makes the comparison and the visuals happen. That's why these, whether it's family, whether it's mentors, college counselors, CBOs, whether it's the colleges, those conversations are really important to make sure we're always comparing apples to apples.
Lee Coffin:
Are there any hidden costs?
Dino Koff:
In these costs of attendance, you're hoping that all the costs are there, but over time, through your four years, there can be some things that you want to ask about. We have 57 or 60% of our students do an off-campus program, we at Dartmouth, and that's an extra cost. From a student from Los Angeles flying to Rome, Italy, it's going to cost more. Dartmouth financial aid goes with you. So, life is good. You can have that same experience and be in Rome, but you want to ask all your schools, what are the hidden costs? Are there healthcare costs? Are there internship costs? If you have an unpaid internship, can you accept that or are there different pots of money to be able to apply for to get funding to have these experiences?
Lee Coffin:
How about clothing? Erica, you live in a very lovely part of the country.
Erica Rosales:
It's beautiful.
Lee Coffin:
Where it never snows. So, let's say one of your kids is going to Minnesota. Is clothing part of a cost of attendance or a financial aid award or is that an extra variable that someone just needs to think about?
Erica Rosales:
I would consider it extra variable that somebody needs to think about, because there are very few schools that actually added on to their cost of attendance. That's a talk that we have with our students. Many of our students are going to colder climates, so we do talk to them about different resources. So, I do know that there are some colleges that have a student aid society or they have closets where students can go in and find warmer clothes. But this is where some outside scholarships can come into play. One thing that typically surprises our students is healthcare. The healthcare expectation. That's a cost that should be taken into account when you're comparing different financial aid packages, because some schools will help you with that, some schools included in their financial aid awards, other schools do not and expect the student's family to cover that.
Lee Coffin:
All right, we've covered costs. Let's talk about the financial aid award itself. There's the scholarship component or, on some campuses, it's called a grant. When I talk to families, kids, I say, scholarship or grant means the same thing and that's the best kind of financial aid because you don't need to pay it back. It is an award from the college to you to cover all or most of the cost of attendance. You might have a loan, we can come back and talk about this, you will likely have work studies, so a federal stipend to cover a campus job. What else, what are the other potential elements of somebody's financial aid award?
Dino Koff:
I think those are the big things that you just hit. We really do like the scholarship and grant, the free money, then, the work component. One thing that might not show as an award, but many schools have, I should say, is the summer earnings expectation. So, before you come to college, some schools will say, "We would like you to earn $1,000 or $1,500," maybe up to $2,000. Some people are able to do that, some people aren't. Schools will offer a loan many times for the summer earnings if students aren't able to do that. That usually is for four years, the summer earnings, or the leave term earnings. The term you're not enrolled during the year, you have an expectation that schools want you to, as Erica said, take part in the financing of your education. That would be your responsibility, the student responsibility, that is separate from the work study, which is during your semester or term, where you're working hourly. That again is your responsibility in the term.
Lee Coffin:
Erica, do you see students being able to earn those dollars or you might need to be working and give that money to your family to help them pay living expenses? Because maybe mom, dad, guardian, lost the job and you're helping to pay rent or buy food.
Erica Rosales:
Yeah, I'm going to say both, right?
Lee Coffin:
Both, yeah.
Erica Rosales:
That's what I see with our students. I think where there's a will, there's a way, and students find a way to contribute to their own education and also to their families.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, Dino, if a student is working more than we would expect them to work, so that they can support their family, how does that factor into their financial aid award? Or does it?
Dino Koff:
Normally, it really doesn't. If it's a normal, even someone working a considerable amount, it doesn't affect the award pre-college, essentially. Because, I mean, we see it absolutely when they come to college, they still may be working. We expect, at Dartmouth, eight to 10 hours a week, if someone is working, we do see students who do more, but it's really tough financially to earn enough as a student to significantly change your award.
Lee Coffin:
Ideally, the college meets 100% of demonstrated needs. So, I need 40, it gives me 40, in some combination of elements that we've been talking about. But a lot of colleges don't have the resources to make that kind of commitment to me, not because they don't want to, they can't. So, I needed 40, and I got 18. That's called a gap. I'm looking at the financial aid award and there is a 20,000, $22,000 difference that I'll borrow it. I'll ask my grandparents for it. I'll work extra hours. Does that make sense? Because it's my dream school and I'm really determined to make it happen. But on the affordability question, it's a swing and a miss. How should I be thinking... And I have this other option that I'm not as excited about, but I can afford it. Help me.
Erica Rosales:
We try to avoid by making sure that students are applying to institutions that meet demonstrated need. But oftentimes, students, they think they fall in love with an institution, and I say that because I do start off by telling students that you're going to have a lot of dream colleges, because it really does depend on the day that you show up to take a tour. But what you want to think about is you want to think about the experience that you're going to have at that institution, and you are a student first.
So, for the next four years of your life, you want to be a student first. That means, when I talked about investing in yourself, you are investing in your learning, you're investing in your experiences, you're investing in what resume you can build up, because there will be a life after, you are preparing for a life after college, and hopefully you get to enjoy your college life.
So, the number one thing I would tell you is right now that college seems like a dream college to you. But if you take on this experience, it might end up being a burden, because you may end up having to work too much. And if you're working too many hours, that means that you don't get to do the homework, do the reading, you don't get to participate in the extracurricular activities that the things that make the school appealing will not be available to you, because you won't have the time.
So, it's really important that you think about that. These are the next four years of your foundation and you want to ensure that you have a very strong foundation. Oftentimes, when I see students take on a college that requires too much work, too many hours of work instead of studying, students end up burning out. Number one is you want to graduate. That is the goal.
Lee Coffin:
Okay. We've covered the elements of the award. We've covered the cost of attendance. What happens if those numbers don't line up? So, you look at an award and you say, "Uh-oh, this doesn't seem like it works." Can they appeal or is the door shut?
Erica Rosales:
Well, it happened to me. When I was a student, a high school senior, and I got into my dream college, a need-blind institution, the numbers didn't add up. I actually went to my college counselor, to her credit, she was a college counselor for 5,000 students at that time, lots of students. What she told me, she said, "Well, I guess you can't go there." This was pre-internet. So, I called the school, they had me fax over some extra... I just remember there was some stuff missing, they didn't understand our whole family situation.
After I sent that in, they sent me back a financial aid package and, like you, Lee, I saw all those zeros and all of a sudden I was like, "My gosh, my dream actually came true. I can actually go to this school. They're actually paying me to learn." So, I would say at institutions like Dartmouth, highly selective institutions, private institutions, I would say it's worth the shot to appeal, especially if you know you really can't afford it, and for some reason those numbers are not adding up. You at least want an explanation.
Lee Coffin:
Well, what's interesting about your example is it, it wasn't even an appeal so much as there was some misunderstanding in your material. So, you had a clarification of the data that was submitted and that shifted the whole terms of your financial aid award. Dino, what happens if someone, I mean, should someone call a financial aid award to say, "Can we rethink this with you"?
Dino Koff:
I would make that phone call even before an appeal, but I think it's important to understand, when you have your spreadsheet that we were talking about earlier, maybe with those five schools, what is this based on? Is my scholarship based on merit? Is it based on need? Most schools will have that on the award, but I think it's important to call the school, because the dialogue is really important and we are always encouraging. Everybody's situation is different. Sometimes that conversation will help you understand, "Okay, this is how the parent contribution happens." And we go through and then we would say, "Okay, it sounds like you do have different information. We want you to appeal." When we hear, "Oh, there was someone who lost a job that wasn't on the paperwork that we received."
There are sometimes things that will jump that aren't in your file. But in that dialogue that we're having, we'll create a situation where we say, "Okay, this is what we need to do." Again, to try to figure out how can we make this happen? Can it always happen perfectly? Unfortunately, no. But I would definitely have a dialogue with the school. That's why it's so important. This is a four-year relationship with the financial aid office when you pick that school. This isn't just a one-year thing. We're hopefully creating a relationship for four years or maybe even beyond.
Lee Coffin:
So, let's jump up into the middle, upper-middle income tier, where I've seen families get tripped up on savings, where they have a lot of money set aside for college, but their expectation is, "Oh, I've got $50,000 and two kids. I divide that by two, it's 25,000 per kid, and it's four or $5,000 a year." Then the college says, "No, no, no, no, no, you've got 50, let's spend that first, empty out your piggy bank and then we'll start the conversation." That seems counterintuitive to anybody who has saved money and done a budget and then wants to spend it over time. Dino, what's the logic of that? Because I know it's the federal guideline. I'll say this as a dean of admission, it's always been the thing that I think, "That just, it doesn't make sense to a family's checkbook and the way you plan your finances," but it's the rule.
Dino Koff:
So, we'll capture assets when people are filling out their forms. When I say capture asset, that's looking at your savings or investments. That will be captured on a form. In the formulas, there are different percentages. Sometimes we hear, "Okay, I'm being penalized because I saved 50,000 or 100,000 and now I'm not qualifying for as much aid." When I hear that statement, I look at the formulas and I say, "I would much rather have $50,000 and lose $2,500 in grants or $5,000 in grants than have $50,000." If your options are using savings or a loan, we say use savings, because a loan may accrue interest and you want to use that first, and it's taking it year by year, and we're going to go year by year with you, we're going to work with you to say, again, here are the options.
Lee Coffin:
To me, one of the hidden truths is the financial aid officers are counselors and they're counseling you towards wise decision-making to the degree they can do that within the rules, both the national rules, but also the institutional rules. But going into this conversation with a financial aid officer is not like showing up at the car dealership and saying, "I don't want to buy that car for that price." Is it okay for a family to come to you and say, "You gave me 20, College X gave me 23," and to put the two offers side by side, not in a let's-make-a-deal mode, but what's different about these two awards? Is that a useful way of approaching you?
Dino Koff:
It isn't let's make a deal. Monty Hall isn't here to open up a curtain and say, "Here it is." We have specific rules that we have to go by. But, again, it's trying to demystify and if we can't make someone happy, at least they'll understand.
Lee Coffin:
So, let's talk about the four-letter word, loan. Where does a loan fit in this? I say it's a four-letter word because it is a four-letter word, but I think some people get really nervous about the idea of borrowing money. It's a two-part, where does the loan fit into this? There's federal loans and then there's the non-federally-subsidized loans, two really different types of loans. Then the third question to talk about is how much is too much when you're borrowing money?
Erica Rosales:
One thing that I have found over the years is that, our students are more afraid of loans. I think it's because there is so much talk, there's so much in the national news about people being in debt and not being able to pay back. So, I think that question of how much is too much is definitely a good one. My rule of thumb with our students, I always tell them, "If you're going to go to a four-year college, you need a plan to graduate first of all. It's a four-year plan because when you take out a loan, even if you don't graduate, you still have to pay back that loan. So, you want to make sure that you are investing in yourself. And the way you're doing that is by getting that college degree."
I tell students that $25,000 you can pay back after you graduate from a four-year institution. That's kind of what I use, because I think that's... And, Dino, correct me if I'm wrong, I think that's the federal guideline for low-income students. I think it's worked, because most of our students do graduate and can find gainful employment and it's something that they can slowly pay back.
Dino Koff:
Loans are there to help families. In the media, in the headlines, they definitely are scaring people. Obviously, we would like people to, students to have grants and scholarships and work, but there may be a piece that isn't covered. If a student is going to be at a four-year institution, you want students to have outside-of-the-classroom experiences. If that means that you have to take $1,000 loan out, because you have different expenses that you may need, it's there for you. You don't have to take it.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Just quickly, a subsidized federal loan, when does a student start to pay that back?
Dino Koff:
A student will go into repayment six months after graduation or if a student ceases to enroll, it's six months after their enrollment ends.
Lee Coffin:
Does the interest accrue between today, when they take out the loan, and December 2025?
Dino Koff:
Really good question. That totally depends on need. The government has subsidized loans, schools have subsidized loans, which subsidized means whether if it's a federal loan, the government's picking up the interest while you're in school. Dartmouth has subsidized loans, we're picking up the interest why a student is in school. So, some schools have that. But it depends on need. The government sometimes won't pick up the interest for students that don't have need, and that's called an unsubsidized loan, and interest is accruing until you repay the loan.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. I think the unsubsidized loans are the ones that sneak around around the perimeters of this conversation, where a family might take out a personal loan from a bank to pay their family contribution. There's no limit on that, right? I mean, it's not 5,000 a year or 6,000 a year adding up to 25. It could be lots of money, that creates a problem.
Dino Koff:
That's where the counseling really comes in. There are so many different options and not just one will be right for a family. It may be a payment plan, it may be savings, it may be a loan, it may be all of that. It might be different the second year, because someone might say, "I got a small bonus, I'm going to use that this year and reduce my loan."
Lee Coffin:
This is a really personal conversation. Somebody may have more appetite for debt or risk and others might not. Or you might have a family situation, you're like, "You know what, the idea of borrowing any money given our circumstances is a non-starter." That may point someone towards College A instead of College C on the list, because it's just the financial element of this may make more sense.
Erica Rosales:
Yeah, it's such a personal decision. So, I have a ninth grade daughter, who I know we're already beginning to think about college, but it's a conversation that started when she, for us, at least, when she was a baby, and starting to think about, "I know she's going to go to college. How much are we going to be willing to pay for that? How much are we going to be willing to invest in that education?" So, I see it from that perspective, but then I also see it from the perspective of College Match and the students who I work with, where a lot of our students don't have the familial network. I see a lot of our students, it's them, inevitably, they're the ones who are going to be responsible for their education, for the cost of that education. But also they are investing in transforming their lives because, for a first-generation student, getting a degree from a highly selective college is transformational, not just for them, but for their family and for our community.
Lee Coffin:
Couple last questions. How about outside scholarships? Where do you find them? And how do they fit into this affordability conversation?
Erica Rosales:
Well, I think for our students, they are definitely easy to get and they exist. For us, January through April is scholarship season. So, we have students applying to a lot of outside scholarships and not just the big national ones that we know of. Every year College Match students are Gates Scholars and Dell Scholar. Those are big national ones. But we do believe that the smaller ones, like the Rotary Clubs, the Kiwanis, the High School Foundations, those, they're less competitive, because it's a smaller pool, and students, if they apply, and they already have everything they need to apply, because they apply to college. So, they have the essays, they have the letters of recommendation. It's just, I always say, sit down for an hour, you might make $500. It's really taking the time, taking your time and investing in yourself. You might end up with some of that money.
Lee Coffin:
What if you are me? I was in a public high school with an overwhelmed guidance office. How would someone like that find an outside scholarship? Where would you point the... They're not part of an organization and their school and family doesn't really have the resource to say, "Look here." Where do they look?
Erica Rosales:
Well, the internet.
Lee Coffin:
The internet.
Erica Rosales:
I was like, these kids are so lucky, because, I mean, when I was in high school, I found scholarships because I just showed up in the college center and there were things on bulletin boards. All right. So, you follow those instructions. But now there's websites out there. There's College Greenlight, collegegreenlight.org is a national organization, they match students up with different scholarships. There's Fastweb. So, you go online and, once again, look for the small ones. Those add up, and they're smaller pools. That's my advice on that.
Dino Koff:
Lee, what's interesting is, just to put it in context, students coming to Dartmouth are bringing outside scholarships literally at a couple million dollars per class. I mean, it's a significant amount, and many checks are coming in at the $1,000 or 1,250 or 250. So, what Erica says is absolutely correct, and I actually would, my tip is, yes, the internet, but my tip is find somebody in the class before you. So, if you're a junior listening to this, find a senior. Or if you're a senior in high school listening to this, find someone who's in college or find their family to find out what outside scholarships, what were people winning at your school, what's out there that, and again, that's just on the local side and still the web will give you national, of course, and there's some statewide, but I always find at the local level, it's families ahead of you that have gone through the process that will tell you, "Hey, the Boston Red Sox gives, in New England, a community service scholarship." I never would've known that.
Lee Coffin:
Good. My last question is about the four-year journey. High school seniors focus on getting in and you've got all of this buzz around the admission process and then enrolling. But what surprises some students is there's a four-year renewal that takes place. So, first year into sophomore year, sophomore into junior year, junior year into senior year, they have to go through this financial aid application again, why?
Dino Koff:
The answer why is on the federal side, you're reapplying for federal aid and you'll need to do a free application for federal student aid every year. Hopefully, it gets easier. At many schools, I can tell you, at Dartmouth, we're not requiring the CSS Profile after year one. That makes life so much easier. You're turning in tax returns that were prior year. So, they're hopefully already a prior year, hopefully already completed. But for need-based schools, they're reevaluating both. So, what happens if dramatically your income has gone down? The expectation is for schools that meet full need, your award will go up.
Lee Coffin:
And vice versa.
Dino Koff:
And vice versa. Some families might... But if a family stays constant over four years with minimal increases, meaning a cost of living increases, their scholarship should go up every year, because college costs tend to go up every year. There's different cost of living adjustments. So, schools are giving out more aid for students that are tracking their income roughly the same or small increases. But it is hopefully, you've gone through the process once, the schools, there are checklists. For parents listening to this, ask your student to forward the emails that come out, if you want to stay on top of the process, but not every school reduces the forms they need. But it's easy to then walk into the financial aid office to say, "I need help." And we're doing workshops, but it should get easier after year one.
Lee Coffin:
But it is an ongoing conversation. It's not like college admission, where you get in and you never have to go to the admission office again. The financial aid office is your friend for a long time. As we wrap, Erica and Dino, what words of encouragement would you leave for our seniors right now? If you could put your arm around them and give them a cyber hug, what would you be telling them right now?
Erica Rosales:
I would just say, we are depending on them to go to these colleges and build our new future. Go to college so that you can achieve that. And like Dino and like Lee has said, we are your friends. I try to tell my students, they're not just office buildings, it's not just the college with office buildings, there are people there and these people want to make sure that you're successful. So, if you've been accepted to a college, that means that they see the potential in you, they see how amazing you are, and they want you there. So, talk to them.
Dino Koff:
That school is opening the admissions door and hopefully financial aid can keep it open and the student can walk through it. We try to be as transparent as possible in a process that is complex. So, that's our goal is to make this as easy as a process as possible.
Lee Coffin:
I have often thought of the financial aid that made my undergraduate and graduate degrees possible as a mortgage I was taking on myself. I was placing a bet on my future that the college was going to help me open a new door. I've thought about the loans in particular that I had to pay off. It's like, this was the passport to my future. Without those resources, I could not have gone to the colleges I attended and the sacrifices I made personally working my way through college, taking out loans, watching dad scrape to make his family contribution each term. There was some skin in the game that had a dividend and the dividend was the diploma at the end. Erica and Dino, thanks for what you do on behalf of the high school seniors and juniors and their families.
Dino Koff:
Thank you, Lee.
Erica Rosales:
Thank you.
Lee Coffin:
Next week, we'll change gears a bit and have an internationally-themed episode aimed at giving some guidance to our friends around the world, who I know are listening, and asking the big question, should I apply to a college in the United States? So, I've got three undergrads from around the world who will join us for a really interesting conversation about how you think about that question, how you explore, and then how you do it. For now, this is Lee Coffin from Dartmouth College. Thanks for listening.