Admissions Beat S2E8 Transcript

Season 2: Episode 8 Transcript
What We Wish We Knew: Advice for Today's College Applicants from Three College Students

Lee Coffin:
From Dartmouth College, this is Lee Coffin, Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid. Welcome to the Admissions Beat. So we've had lots of conversations over our first seven episodes with experts, deans, college counselors, advisors. And I thought it was important to turn the mic over to the real experts, some students. So today, three undergrads at Dartmouth have joined me to have a conversation about the searches they had one year, two years, three years ago. And not specifically the path from home to Hanover, New Hampshire, but what played out for each of them as they thought about college, applied to college, chose college. And if they could do it again, what advice do they have for seniors who are midway through the fall, as the deadlines draw near, the stress of applying jacks up?

And I'm hoping our friends from the undergraduate side of this conversation can reassure their peers, who are seniors in high school, that this is not only doable, but exciting and interesting. So when we come back, we'll say hello to our three students and have what I know is going to be a lively Q&A with them.

(music) 

So today, we welcome Emma Johnson, a member of our class of '24, which means she's a junior, Gavin Fry, a sophomore, and Daniel Hernandez, who is a first-year student, so a couple months into his fall term. And I'm going to give each of you a chance to say hi, introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself. So let's go chronologically and start with Emma.

Emma Johnson:
All right. Thank you so much for having me here today.

Lee Coffin:
Of course.

Emma Johnson:
My name is Emma Johnson. I'm originally from Omaha, Nebraska, where I went to Marian High School. And I'm really excited to be here to talk about my experience getting from Omaha into where I am here at Hanover, but more specifically, into the college experience and what that was like for me.

Lee Coffin:
And Emma, what are you studying?

Emma Johnson:
I'm currently studying quantitative social sciences with a focus on economics and theater as a double major.

Lee Coffin:
Wow. Okay. So we'll come back to that. Let's say hi to Gavin.

Gavin Fry:
Thank you, Lee. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. My name's Gavin Fry. I'm a sophomore here at Dartmouth College. I'm from a small rural farm town in southeast Missouri. And here at Dartmouth, I'm studying earth science, or at least that's the plan as of now. And I'm really excited to talk with you guys today.

Lee Coffin:
And where did you go to high school, Gavin?

Gavin Fry:
I went to high school in a teeny, tiny, public high school in southeast Missouri called Senath-Hornersville High School.

Lee Coffin:
Okay. And from the West Coast, we say hi to Daniel.

Daniel Hernandez:
Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. Really excited to be here. Going to have a great time. So I'm from east Los Angeles, California. I was born and raised there. I went to high school at Alliance Environmental Science Technology High School. And I'm making the transition into Dartmouth. A few months here already, that I've spent. Just finished up midterms. Wrapping up the quarter system. And I mean, it goes by fast, which is something that really surprised me. But I look forward to my next few years here. I'm interested in studying government and Mandarin, so I'm taking a few courses that relate to that.

Lee Coffin:
Okay, great. So when you say time goes quickly, it really does. And Daniel, you're the closest of the three of you to the college admission process. So we rewind a year ago, mid-fall 2021. You were a senior in high school. When I say that, what do you think?

Daniel Hernandez:
A bunch of stress.

Lee Coffin:
Oh, stress.

Daniel Hernandez:
Managing applications, anxiety, overthinking, all of these things just pertained to the thought of being admitted to a prospect of colleges that I was interested in. And that's what comes to mind when I was applying to college.

Lee Coffin:
So Daniel, that makes me a little sad that the very first thing you said was stress. Of all the possible kind of things you could've remembered, you went to that. Tell me a little bit more about that.

Daniel Hernandez:
Sure. I'm part of this organization called College Match Los Angeles. And so they aided me in the admissions process in applying to higher education. And so as I was exploring these colleges, I think I made a few mistakes that seniors all around the country can make. So things like comparing yourselves to others. Thinking that because someone else gets into a better school, you're just not good enough, because you didn't get in either. I think making comparisons like these can put a lot of stress on you. And so they're just not very productive. They're not very useful. But most importantly, I think what I forgot in that moment was the fact that my story is unique from everyone else's. That's something that really grounded me at the time, is just remembering that my story is different from everyone else.

Lee Coffin:
That is really important. And Emma, you're nodding as Daniel shares all of that. Now, you're the farthest away from your senior of high school, but that still rang true as Daniel shared that story.

Emma Johnson:
Absolutely. That was something that was really important to me throughout my admissions process, was to remember that. I also remember being really stressed, but also overwhelmed and excited. And there were all these emotions that were happening at once. And all I could do is just hold on for the ride. This is my second time on your podcast. And the first time I talked about one of my high school counselors reminding me that while every single college and university out there is unique in their own way, every single student applying is unique. That I'm the only one me. And I'm the only one with my background, and experiences, and my stories that I can bring to wherever I'm applying, that I can contribute to the student body that I want to be a part of. So that's something, and it really rings true for me.

It's also something that I have really gotten to grasp onto in the theater department. When you're involved in theater, you might not get a particular role or something just because maybe you don't fit the overall puzzle that they're trying to put together. It's nice to think about everyone is an individual puzzle piece and where they fit into everything that's coming together. And so knowing that you are your own individual puzzle piece that maybe just doesn't fit in a particular spot or has a perfect fit elsewhere, there's just so many different ways to think about it. And just remembering that everyone's unique is so important.

Lee Coffin:
I love that metaphor, comparing the casting of a play with the way someone auditions and the way a director has to make choices about who, that may have nothing to do with someone's merit or talent. It's just that role in that moment needed this kind of persona. Gavin, is this ringing true for you as well from southeast Missouri? Or did you have a different journey?

Gavin Fry:
Lee, I think I can relate with what Emma and Daniel have been saying. There were a few key moments of stress during my senior year, for sure. But mostly, I remember feeling a tad bit lost when it came to the college admissions process. Quite frankly, I'm from a place where the access of higher education is not really prioritized. It's something where a lot of students go on to join the workforce or go on to trade school. So when I would think about the idea of college, I always knew I wanted to go to college. It was always an option for me. I focused on grades in high school and obviously, there was a lot of stress with that. And I really, during my senior year, really started to take note of what was important to me. And toward the latter part of my senior year that was getting into college.

And that's when I truly started the journey of talking with my admissions counselors and realizing they had not a clue any more than I did about college admissions. So my senior year was a big journey of figuring out what the college application process was, figuring it out for myself and taking that journey.

Lee Coffin:
So how did you do that, Gavin? So for our listeners who might be in a high school like yours, where it sounds like your peer group wasn't focused on college or maybe a selective college in quite the same way you were, were you your own self-advocate? How did you go from where you were to where you are?

Gavin Fry:
Lee, that's an awesome question. And I want us all the journey back to COVID time, because we all remember that. We know and love it. And the way it worked-

Lee Coffin:
I don't know that we love it, but we remember it.

Gavin Fry:
That's right, that's right. Well, if we think about where I'm from, COVID restrictions weren't that strong at the beginning of my senior year. And as we got closer and closer to the fall, COVID numbers went up and we were all sent home, virtually. We were in person for the first few months. And when I was sent home to do strictly virtual schoolwork, I had a lot more time on my hands. And I started hearing from some of my friends who had chit-chatted about going to some of these local community colleges that, "All the application deadlines are coming up," or, "This deadline is coming up." And I'm like, "Wait, deadlines? What are we talking about?"

Lee Coffin:
What's a deadline?

Gavin Fry:
What's a deadline? And again, I had a lot of this time on my hand. I was getting through my work. And I'd to sit at my desk at home and twiddle my thumbs. And instead of twiddling my thumbs, I started to take it upon myself to research what college was, what college is meant for, first of all, what the financial aid aspect is like at different colleges. I wasn't going to be able to pay some of the sticker prices that I'd seen online after researching these colleges. I had no idea. I was raised by my grandmother, so I had heard a lot about her student loans from going to a community college back at home. And I had no idea what to do.

So I, again, took it upon myself to research these different places, different colleges around the United States. And I guess it kind of just snowballed from there. The more time that I had at home, the more time I put into searching for a college. And again, what the college application process was like. And over time, I suppose I got more and more familiar with what it was like. And it just kind of went on from there, Lee.

Lee Coffin:
So you were self-taught.

Gavin Fry:
That's right.

Lee Coffin:
I think there are a lot of students in a lot of high schools around the world who are self-taught. I was, too. My one and only meeting with a guidance counselor at my public high school, long time ago, went in to see him mid-fall. He opened up my file. He went, "Ugh! I don't have time for the smart ones. Go back to class." And that was it. And I learned later that he just was busy. He had other things going on in his docket. And helping me figure out college was not part of that assignment. But like you, you just figure it out. So I think that's a really important lesson though for listeners around college admission is a process. It plays out over ideally 18 months, sometimes 12 months, sometimes 6 months.

But keeping your hands on your own steering wheel I think is a really important part of this, where you control, what story am I telling about myself? Where am I investigating? And I think the resources you all have now in 2022, '23, they're there. Daniel, you were in an access organization and you mentioned College Match. So how was that as a resource to help you think about where you were going?

Daniel Hernandez:
I mean, College Match was my biggest supporter, aside from my parents, my family, I had Mrs. Cova. Mrs. Cova, who was my College Match counselor, actually, she really was kind of my biggest fan in helping me apply to these colleges. And she would constantly guide me on what financial aid meant within different colleges, what location meant, how that impacted my course of study there, for example. But another thing is I also got lots of support on my supplementary essays. They really helped me find the gold nuggets within my life. And how to display those on a Google document that I would later submit during the November deadlines for early decision, was fundamental in getting me to where I am today.

Lee Coffin:
So let's talk about the gold nuggets. So all three of you completed a common application. You wrote essays. You did a supplement. Maybe you had an interview. How did you tell your story? If you're advising a senior in high school who's still sitting at, imagine her sitting there with fingers on the keyboard saying, "What do I say?" What should she say?

Emma Johnson:
I know that when I wrote my applications, I knew that in high school there was a handful of teachers who would just, anytime I would go to do something or I'd say, "Oh, I'm a little stressed," they would say, "You've got the Emma Johnson pizzazz. You can make this happen." And so I sat down and when I went to write my application, I was like, "Okay, I'm going to put all of the Emma Johnson pizzazz into this I can." And I know that when I was writing my first few applications, I've gone back and I've reread them and they're exactly what I, at the time, thought the admissions team wanted to hear. And it's not what they wanted to hear.

Lee Coffin:
I love that you just said that.

Emma Johnson:
It was exactly what I thought some imaginary higher-up in the college scheme wanted to know about a potential student coming in. And then for my last few applications, that were really closer to the regular decision deadline, I just sat down and I wrote stories that I love to tell. And I wrote my favorite childhood memories from the time I convinced my little brother to eat a packet of wasabi. Or just things like that, that were just parts of who I am that maybe not everyone gets to see, but it's the Emma Johnson pizzazz and it makes me, me.

Lee Coffin:
Right. It's more authentic. And when you were talking about writing an essay to some higher up, so that's conceptually me, but you've turned me into an avatar of kind of admissions who has something we're trying to see. What did you think I wanted to know? When you were writing to that anonymous avatar of admission, what did you think that person hoped to know about you?

Emma Johnson:
I had some concept in my mind of what the perfect college student was. And so I thought that these students should be professional and should already have all of these accolades. And I just had some idea in my mind that I should already be a small walking professional when I came into Dartmouth. And that's not it at all. College is a place to learn. It's a place to explore. And it's to find who you are. You shouldn't already know who you are when you come in. And I mean, you might have an idea of who you are, but that's definitely going to change. And you might grow up stronger than that. You might move away from that. But I totally thought that I needed to be some already-morphed, fully-created person when I needed to arrive on my first day of classes. And that wasn't the case at all.

Actually, what I wound up doing is because I thought that I needed to be the perfect college student for my first few essays, I actually wound up writing a personal statement from the point of view of Billy Mays, the OxiClean infomercial man. Wrote an infomercial for myself as the perfect college student. And so it was how can I take who I am and show who I am, and what I think is the best of who I am and the worst of who I am? And just a little bit of this, that and the other and everything, all the sparkles that come together to make my person.

Lee Coffin:
Well, you're reminding me of a guest we had a couple of episodes ago, the Vice Provost for Student Affairs at Duke. And she used a phrase that I love. She said, "You need to be your authentic, messy self."

Emma Johnson:
Exactly.

Lee Coffin:
And Gavin's like, yeah, nodding. I mean, who is the authentic, messy Gavin?

Gavin Fry:
No, that's right, Lee. It's really just because I'm resonating with everything that Emma is saying. Looking back at this process, getting into the college application process, it was a bit scary. I thought that I had to put on some kind of mask. And tried to convey some kind of story to some obscure person who's reading these essays. And I want to make myself look better than everybody else. And it's just, looking back, it's just not the case. And I truly think it's a lot easier than what we all make it out to be. It's really about conveying who you are as a person, what makes you tick? What are your passions? What are you interested in? Who is Gavin Fry? It's not about trying to for gloss over some perfect image you think of yourself or who you ought to be. It's just who you are. I think at the end of the day, when I think back to my college applications, the stress associated with them, of course, you want to put forward the best application.

But I think it should come naturally. At the end of the day, you're wanting somebody to understand who you are. You're wanting to understand the person that I am. And it took me a little bit to realize that. But when I got to the point where I genuinely understood what the college application looked like, I stopped. And I said, "Well, all of these questions are trying to get at, who am I? What's your story? What have you done throughout your life? What have you been through? Why are you seeking out these opportunities? Why do you want to go to college? What motivates you? What pushes you?" And once you're able to take a step back from it all, first of all, and just remember that you're trying to convey some information about yourself, genuinely, then you're like, "Oh, well this is a lot easier than I thought it was going to be. Let me just be genuine and not try to put on some lamination on whatever you're writing."

Lee Coffin:
Or a costume. I mean, to go back to Emma's kind of theater metaphor, you don't need to wear a costume.

Emma Johnson:
Exactly. It's about taking the costume off. And Gavin, the way you put it about removing that laminate, oh, I love the way that you put that. That's such a great metaphor.

Lee Coffin:
It's true. Gavin, I'm thinking about how you introduced yourself on this podcast as somebody from a small town in rural southeast Missouri, raised by your grandma, want to study earth sciences. All of those things are interesting. Wrap them all up, interesting as a whole package. Split them apart, interesting all by itself. I mean, Daniel's talking about studying Mandarin and that's interesting. I don't need to know that when I pick up his file saying, "Here's a kid from East LA who wants to study Mandarin." I mean, I didn't expect to know that. But then I open it. And I start to meet him. And I get illuminated by a story that is him. So as you all think about this, and it sounds like looking back, you realize, "Wow, I overthought some things."

Emma Johnson:
That's an understatement.

Lee Coffin:
That's an understatement. What did you overthink?

Emma Johnson:
I don't think there was a thing I didn't overthink.

Lee Coffin:
But give us some examples. What was preoccupying the three of you as high school seniors? What were you worrying about?

Emma Johnson:
I mean, I guess, in my case, I was thinking about how far I'd be from home compared to all of my peers, because I know that being from Nebraska, a lot of people tend to stay in the Midwest. And both my parents stayed in the Midwest for their higher education. And so I was looking at Midwest and East Coast schools. But then I was also looking at cost of attendance and financial aid, because being Midwest middle class doesn't necessarily mean that I can pay about $80,000 a year. And so I'm on a fair amount of financial aid here and trying to understand how financial aid works, and trying to understand how scholarships work, and where I can find those, where I can apply to those.

But also trying to make sure that I maintain my grades in my senior year. And trying to understand what these admissions people want to know from me, because I overthought what that was, like Gavin and I just covered. And I just needed to be genuine. And so trying to figure out all these different things, all at the same time, it just felt like a lot to balance. I was juggling, trying to keep all these balls in the air.

Lee Coffin:
Daniel, what did you overthink?

Daniel Hernandez:
A good amount of it was financial aid as well.

Lee Coffin:
That's a theme across all three of you, pointing to that.

Daniel Hernandez:
Exactly. I think worrying about how my parents would fund my higher education was always something that was on my mind. And so really, I had family in the back of my head quite frequently whenever I was applying to colleges. And so I think that certainly brought upon a lot of stress worrying about this issue. But I'm going to reference Dartmouth a little bit here and say that I think one thing that I was really taken aback by is, because I was so fixated on financial aid, I also knew that I wanted to study abroad. And when I learned that Dartmouth allows you to travel with your financial aid, it was kind of a golden ticket. I was really, really taken aback by that.

Lee Coffin:
That's a good example, Daniel, for your peers listening to this. That's a policy that doesn't always rise to the top of someone's college search. And as you dialed into it, you realized, "Oh, that's a really important element of the way I'm going to experience college. Which colleges will allow that kind of equity in the way I get to participate, and in this example, off-campus study?"

Daniel Hernandez:
Absolutely. So just to kind of tie that off, it's also really important to look at the golden nuggets that different colleges can offer you. And if there's a particular aspect of a college that can keep your options open, then go for it and explore that opportunity and remain curious while doing so.

Lee Coffin:
So let's talk a little bit more about the financial aid piece and how you each had that conversation, or not, with your families, because it's a significant investment for you as an individual, for your family. Did you have conversations at the beginning? Did this conversation happen at the end? Was this kind of a decision-time conversation? Or did the whole search play out with this as a non-negotiable part of where you would end up?

Gavin Fry:
Lee, I mean, that's a deep question and I think especially for people in the first-generation and low-income community. And what we were just talking about was how we overthink things a lot of the times. And personally for me, I've always overthought how numbers define me. I've always defined myself by numbers, whether that be GPA, or test scores, or anything. But the big number that affects everybody is how much money you have. And to be completely transparent, I'm not going to hold back, because I think there are a lot of students out there that don't recognize that these opportunities are available. And I'm very passionate about that. They should, because they have the same passion and motivation that me, Daniel and Emma do. But guess what? They're not going to know, because if they came from a similar high school to mine, they have no idea what opportunities are available.

Because they feel that the financial aspect of it hinders them from doing so. So Lee, to put it quite frankly, that was the biggest priority of mine when it came to selecting a college. It was, "Will I be financially stable?" Because I had never been financially stable. I didn't have the greatest of family situations. My mom and dad didn't make any money. I lived with my grandmother. She provided everything for me. And when I truly sat back and started to think about what the next few years of my life were going to look like, I said, "Okay, Gavin, let's sit down and think about this in terms of being a realist," which is something my grandmother taught me. For the next four years [inaudible 00:25:52] going to dedicate my life to academics. And my life's going to look a lot differently than back in high school. I'm going to be financially independent. And that was my situation.

So I really started to take note of where my priorities needed to shift from high school into college. And for me that was obviously, the financial aid aspect of college. And it always goes back to me being out of the know in terms of the college application process. I want to say that in such a way that it's not me pitying myself, because I think obviously, all of these students need to understand what opportunities are available. But it's also hard if you don't have the information there, it'd be like, "Hey, can have these same opportunities that a lot of the other kids in America have or across the world." I didn't know that. And I didn't know that. I got very lucky. I studied with online resources and figured out what need-blind college admissions were. And once I figured that out, I said, "Let me think about this for a second. I might have a shot of this." To be quite frank, Dartmouth has met every aspect of that for me, Lee.

Lee Coffin:
I shared this part of the story with the three of you, where financial aid was my path forward. And I think more students than we appreciate are sitting on that same seat with us, looking at the cost of higher ed, wondering how do I do it? And also from high schools, not unlike the one you're describing, Gavin. When you're in that high school, you feel like a unicorn, like, "I'm the only one here that's looking out and thinking there's something else." But I think there's so many students like, I'm going to say, us who have an aspiration and have to have a bit of confidence to move towards it.

Let's talk a bit about when you imagined college. And you all ended up at a liberal arts college, which is a type of undergraduate program, but not always one that everybody recognizes as the obvious place to go. I majored in history and people would say to me, "Oh, you're going to be a historian?" I'm like, "No, I just love history." Or I've had parents say, "Why would my daughter study religion? She's not going to be a minister." I'm like, "She could be, but that's not the point." How did the three of you think about liberal arts? Did you have to have a conversation like that at home or with your guidance counselor? Or did you know somehow in 12th grade this was your jam?

Emma Johnson:
I'm not going to lie, I didn't fully understand what liberal arts meant until I got to Dartmouth. I just knew that it meant that I could, whoever I talked to in various admissions offices, I would specifically ask them if I could academically explore. Because I knew that I wanted to study fine arts. But I also wanted to study STEM. And then I'm also interested in business and entrepreneurship. And I was like, "I want to do all of this." And the number of schools that were not liberal arts institutions said, "Ooh, sorry, we have limits on where your major paths can go and what you can study, X, Y, and Z." It felt pretty natural that I wound up at a liberal arts institution, because I know specifically here at Dartmouth, it's encouraged to explore all the different departments through distributive requirements. And it's very easy for me to double major here.

But I know that I was also looking at two other liberal arts universities when I was narrowing it down just before Ivy Day. Like I said before, both of my parents went to schools in the Midwest, in Nebraska specifically. And so Dartmouth was a reach school. I didn't think I'd get in. So I was looking at two non-ivy liberal arts schools that were within my financial aid range. I knew that I was going to have to take out loans at some point. But they offered a decent amount of financial aid that I could probably make it work. It'd be stressful, but I could make it work. And they would were willing to let me study what I was interested in studying in. And it was just kind of narrowing it down and keeping my fingers crossed for Ivy Day. And Dartmouth happened to work out.

Dartmouth offered me more financial aid than any other institution did. And so it was super easy for me to say yes. And they just naturally let me study what I wanted to study. And so I know that there are some students here that have a single-track focus. They know they want to be engineers and they stick with the Engineering Department. But you can do that at other schools, too. But I know that at a liberal arts institution, it's very unique that you're able to expand your horizons and look at different departments that you might not be able to look at otherwise. And that's pretty much why I would pick Dartmouth again if I could. Although I know this isn't a Dartmouth-specific podcast, so I'll stop rambling on about Dartmouth.

Lee Coffin:
Very happy customer. Okay, so in one sentence then, Daniel and Gavin, what are the liberal arts? You're talking to a senior in high school. What are the liberal arts?

Gavin Fry:
That's such an awesome question, Lee. And this actually came up in a topic of conversation in a religion class that I'm taking. And just to give you perspective, I am a STEM student. I am a science guy. I have always been. But here at Dartmouth, I would probably define in a sentence liberal arts college as learning how to think. When I heard that definition, I was kind of taken aback. But it's true. You learn a lot about yourself. You learn actually how to think about the world, from many different angles, not just from a scientific standpoint, from a philosophical standpoint, from a religious standpoint, from any standpoint you may think. But for me, that's learning how to think.

Lee Coffin:
Daniel?

Daniel Hernandez:
I would put it simply down as keeping your options open. I think, in that sense I, for example, am very interested in interdisciplinary subjects. So I'm interested in government, and economics, and Mandarin. And when I was told that I could do all three of these at Dartmouth, I was shocked. So being able to keep my options open to these three areas of interest was something that caught my attention like this. I think that's just the large value of attending a liberal arts institution. I can wake up one day and say, "You know what? Maybe government isn't my thing. I think I want to study earth sciences." And having that option I think is really invaluable.

Lee Coffin:
And why were you shocked? Because you thought you had to choose right away?

Daniel Hernandez:
Exactly. I thought I had to stick with one career path and hopefully, it worked out somewhere down the line. But knowing that I just have so many possible avenues to explore, really encouraged me to remain curious about work where [inaudible 00:32:50] college.

Lee Coffin:
I think that's a great way of saying it, "Permission to remain curious." I think about coming out of public high school and not knowing what all... I would see majors when I got into my first year and I thought, "I don't even know what this word means. What is anthropology?" And once I learned what anthropology was, "Oh, that's really interesting." But it was not a word that had surfaced in the social studies curriculum I had at my public high school. And I think that's one of those kind of aha moments that a lot of us have as they move through the college admission process. You start to take stock of, what is it I want and how comfortable am I exploring? Because some people want to be told, "Point A leads to point B, leads to point C. Go!"

And then other people are more comfortable saying, "Let's see where this takes me." And I think that's a liberal arts kind of reaction. It's you're going to explore, discover, be surprised. So if you could sit down with Daniel, Emma and Gavin from one, three and two years ago, what would you tell yourself at this point in your senior fall? You're all thinking. It's like, I can see the wheels turning on that one.

Emma Johnson:
I think I would give 2019 Emma a heads up about the pandemic, because the first two weeks of the pandemic was when I was finding out about all of my admissions. And from there I had to figure out what exactly it meant, looking into the mental health resources that college campuses were providing and what exactly that would mean for my college experience and how that would shift everything aside. I would also tell 2019 me to chill out. I would use some other words in there just to tell her, really, it's going to be okay. Everything's going to work out. You don't need to be this much of a stress case. It's going to be fine.

Lee Coffin:
Gavin just threw his arms up in the air. He would say the same thing?

Emma Johnson:
I stole. I stole your words, Gavin.

Gavin Fry:
Emma, you literally took the words right out of my mouth. I think I would whack 2021 Gavin upside the head and be like, "Look, man, chill out a little bit." Just like you said, Emma, "It's all going to be okay." I'd probably give myself a hug, too, like, "It's going to be all right." And focusing on what truly makes you happy, whether it be just from a general standpoint or from an academic standpoint even. Talking about the college application process, if you focus on your genuine interest and your genuine growth as a person, everything else is going to fall in line, I think.

Daniel Hernandez:
Piggybacking off of that, I think I'd go back and tell myself to take a chill pill, as well. I don't think there was any need for me to put myself in a situation where I had to roll with the punches. And I think that I'd tell myself not to postpone things that I really wanted to do. There was a book I wanted to read during the pandemic that I just never got around to. And I ended up reading it this summer and I finished it. But it's a little late. And so I think it's just a matter of telling myself to enjoy what I had in that moment and to really explore my intuition however I wanted to.

Lee Coffin:
Well, it's interesting. The first things each of you referenced we stress. And the last things each of you referenced was chill, which are not unrelated. And I think that's a great kind of piece of advice to the high school class of 2023 as they come closer to the application deadlines. It's a serious part of your life, but you don't need to take it so seriously. I think as an admission officer, as a dean, I do this podcast in many ways to turn down the volume, to turn down the heat on this Bunsen burner and say, "You know what? You do not need to tie yourself up into a pretzel about this outcome." I do wonder about selectivity and the way the Admission Beat, the media, covers acceptance rates and, "Oh, it's so hard to get in." And I wonder if that puts stress on you as applicants when you read these stories saying, "It's so hard. It's impossible."

Daniel Hernandez:
It feels like you don't have the chance, almost. It feels limited on.

Lee Coffin:
So last question then. Decision day comes. You get the email saying, "Your decision's ready." Recount for us the moment you clicked on your decisions and got the news. Daniel?

Daniel Hernandez:
I remember being my creative writing class. And I'm not one to wait until I get home. And then I was like, "No, I'm going to go to my counselor's office." So I see it says, "Open your letter." And I run up to my counselor's office, who basically, aided me throughout all of the admissions process. And she was like, "Okay, let's click it on three." And I clicked it on three. And then it's, "Congratulations!" And it was such a great moment. I started crying in her arms, because it was not just my work, but it was her work as well. She worked really hard to support me. And it really just brought things to fruition. And it was just a moment of peace. It was nice.

Lee Coffin:
A moment of peace. Gavin?

Gavin Fry:
Lee, I will absolutely never forget the moment. I was coming back from a high school golf match. And it was me and my coach in a pickup truck. And I had bad cell service. And it was April the 6th of 2021. And I was like, "Oh, I got an email from the common application. Let me see what that is." And I opened the email. And I saw where I got into and I was like, "Oh, well, that can't be real. That's amazing!" So it was a bit of a dream come true. Even to this day, I'm still like, "Did that actually happen?" It just all happened so fast. But I'll never forget that moment.

Lee Coffin:
Emma?

Emma Johnson:
So I'm a little bit of a stress case. I don't know if you've picked up on that or not.

Lee Coffin:
I've picked up on that.

Emma Johnson:
Oh, man. Ivy Day, it's two weeks into the pandemic, March 26th, 2020. And I decided I was going to take a bubble bath beforehand to try and lower my stress levels. I know some people film themselves opening their admissions decisions. That was not me in the slightest. I actually put on all of my fuzziest pajamas and wrapped myself in blankets. I locked my bedroom door and I told my parents to stay out so I could open this on my own. And I opened up all of my admissions portals that were coming out at the same time, 6:00 PM Central. And my Dartmouth portal refreshed four minutes early. And I was like, "Oh, that's weird." So I go and I click on it. It says, "There's an update to your status." And so I click on it and it says, "Congratulations, Emma! We'd love to welcome you to the class at 2024." And I remember looking at it, and then I refreshed the page to make sure it wasn't a mistake. And it still says congratulations. And I screamed. I think I cried.

I ran downstairs. I showed my mom. My mom is screaming and crying now. My dad came downstairs. He made a joke. He goes, "What's Dartmouth? I've never heard of it. Ha, ha, ha." And we all just had a really good time. A big family group hug at the end, because we weren't expecting this. I mean, financial aid, an award letter at the exact same time. So being able to look at it, make sure my parents weren't stressed about making this a possibility for me to attend Dartmouth, that was something that was really important. So I had the stress relief of getting in. My parents had the stress relief of being able to afford it. It was what I could only imagine as a perfect moment. It just went so fast, though. It's just kind of captured as a picture in my head.

Lee Coffin:
Well, and what I love about those three recollections is there are moments of happiness. And to listeners, Daniel, Emma and Gavin are not superheroes. They are real life, 20-somethings and teenagers at this point. And I offer them up as examples of what's possible, that selective college admissions is competitive. That's the nature of it. But it's not impossible. And as you heard today, the worry that accompanies it can be set aside to a degree if you just stay true to your own purpose and believe that it's possible. So thank you all for joining me tonight on this conversation on Admission Beat. It's been a really fun conversation and hope to see you all on campus soon.

Daniel Hernandez:
Likewise. Thank you for having me.

Lee Coffin:
You're welcome.

Emma Johnson:
Thank you. I appreciate it.

Gavin Fry:
Thank you so much, Lee.

Lee Coffin:
If you liked this episode of Admissions Beat, please leave us a rating or a comment wherever you download your podcasts. Your feedback helps other listeners discover the conversation and it helps us make a better show for you. If you have a question you'd like us to answer in our season finale, please share it with us at AdmissionsBeat@dartmouth.edu. That's AdmissionsBeat@dartmouth.edu. And I'll pose it to our panelists on that final episode. Admission Beat is a production from Dartmouth College, but it's not about admission to Dartmouth College, is produced by Charlotte Albright with editorial guidance from Jacques Steinberg and marketing strategy and promotion from Kevin Ramos-Glew and Sara Morin. For now, I'm Lee Coffin. Thanks for listening.