State You
Lee Coffin:
From Hanover, New Hampshire, I'm Lee Coffin, Dartmouth's Vice President and Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid, and this is Admissions Beat.
As we're having conversations week to week about the start of a college search and making a list and making sure it's thoughtfully conceived, and the non-negotiables are in place, and that it's affordable, inevitably somebody says, "Make sure you include a state university as one of your options." And it occurred to me that we haven't had an episode dedicated to a state university as an option. So, here we are to put a spotlight on a really important and fundamental part of American higher ed. And I've invited two guests to join us this week, plus my producer and editor who teaches at a state university. And I thought, let's have a conversation today about the value of the purpose of the resources at the state universities in the United States. We'll be right back.
(music)
I'm excited to welcome two of my colleagues from really different parts of the US to join me on Admission Beat. Erin Bernard is the director of first year admissions at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. Hello, Erin.
Erin Bernard:
Hello. Thank you for having me.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, of course. And for listeners, for most of the conversation, I will refer to it as UMass, which is its more local moniker. UMass. And from the great state of Texas, Ramon Blakely, the Assistant Vice Provost for Admission at the University of Texas at Austin, AKA, UT. Hello, Ramon.
Ramon Blakely:
Hey, Lee. Good to see you again.
Lee Coffin:
And joining us for a completely different point of view, my producer and editor, Charlotte Albright, who is a faculty member from time to time in the Vermont State University system. And I thought, Charlotte's been around state universities in Northern New England and has certainly met the students who attend them, so Charlotte's going to join us for a conversation about what she sees within the Vermont system. Hi, Charlotte.
Charlotte Albright:
Hello there.
Lee Coffin:
Hello there. As we start, why don't you each spend a couple minutes just introducing the place where you work. Tell listeners about each campus where you are in the state. And help, whether you're a junior listening and starting to imagine yourself in a state university, or you're a senior who has applied, decisions are coming out and you're weighing, "Do I go to UT or do I go to Rice? Do I go to UMass Amherst or do I go to Amherst College?" Helping people in both parts of the cycle think about the fit of a state U. Erin, tell us about UMass.
Erin Bernard:
UMass Amherst, we're the flagship campus of all the universities in Massachusetts, which is, right off the bat, something that changes per state. We have four UMasses. UMass Amherst, like I said, is the flagship. We have UMass Boston, UMass Dartmouth, UMass Lowell. They're all separate schools, you have to apply to each one separately. Which is different than, let's say UConn, right next door. They have other campuses and they will place you there. You have one application. There's different state systems that have different feels and vibes to them.
But UMass, we're the flagship. We have about 23,000 undergraduate students, about 6,000 graduate students located in Amherst, which is in western Massachusetts. We're about two hours west of Boston, about three hours north of New York City. If you did that on a map, you could find us right there.
Amherst is a really quaint New England town, which I think is exciting for people who are not from New England, and then is par for the course for some people who are from New England. But we like to talk about it because it does set us apart a little bit from some other schools. It's a very college-driven area. There's four other schools within a 10-mile radius of us, which is unique in a non-city environment. We're Division 1 athletics. We have over 90 different majors, lots to offer as lots of schools like us have.
And one of the things that I like to press on: A large state school is just the amount of opportunities available at people's fingertips. And the right student who gets excited by that, they're excited to explore different things. They want options, or they know exactly what they want to do and it's offered here, which sometimes it isn't offered everywhere. Those are the students who really excel here.
Lee Coffin:
And is UMass Amherst a university with multiple schools and colleges, or is it one big entity?
Erin Bernard:
Yes. We have 10 schools and colleges. An example would be the College of Engineering, the College of Humanities and Fine Arts, and that's how our academics are set up. And it is also how you apply to the university.
Lee Coffin:
Through one of the schools. And of the 10, the two you named are common, are any of the 10 atypical?
Erin Bernard:
We have our Stockbridge School of Agriculture, which is different. And that is within our College of Natural Sciences, but it has associate degrees, which is unique. And it was how our college was founded as an agricultural school, and we've kept those roots.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Very interesting. Okay. Ramon, tell us about UT Austin.
Ramon Blakely:
Well, yeah, thanks so much. UT Austin is located in Austin, Texas. A fast, thriving, growing city, monikered as the live music capital of the world, or at least of the United States. But UT Austin is a premier public institution in so many ways. If you're looking at rankings, you'll see that we're number seven in terms of public universities nationally. We bring together what I would call is the trifecta, is being in a vibrant city, having a vibrant academic experience for students, but then also having the athletic experience and that spirit that a lot of students are looking for. We have a over 97% retention rate. Four year graduation rate is approaching 80%.
When you think about the types of students that would come to school here, students that really would want to experience and emphasize the culture here in Austin, internship opportunities. We are a tech hub city, the innovation ecosystem that's here, premier public research university.
Similar to my colleague, we are the flagship of the UT system, but we operate very similar to my colleague in that students are able to apply directly to the other system schools, so we don't place students in other schools. But again, it all comes down to strong academic outcomes, high impact practices and experiences, and resources to help students and families really navigate this wonderful experience in Austin, Texas.
Lee Coffin:
And how big is UT?
Ramon Blakely:
About 52,000 students. 52,000. A little bit over 43,000 undergrads.
Lee Coffin:
Okay. Your first year class is about?
Ramon Blakely:
Somewhere between 9,000 and 9,500.
Lee Coffin:
Okay. And Erin, you're about 5,000?
Erin Bernard:
5,350.
Lee Coffin:
5,350.
Erin Bernard:
It's the goal.
Lee Coffin:
No, but I asked that because if you're a junior family just starting out, that's part of the Goldilocks is the size right. I work for a place with the entering class of 1,175, and we're also a D1 institution, but tiny next to the two of you. And those are the things that people try it on themselves and say, "Yeah, this feels good." You both described your campus as a flagship. Define that word for a family.
Ramon Blakely:
Yeah. For us, and I think it means the same across the board, but we define flagship as we're the institution that is the guiding force for the system. A lot of the resources, programs, and opportunities stem out to the other campuses from our campus.
Lee Coffin:
Under the umbrella UT Austin, how many colleges and schools are included there?
Ramon Blakely:
Absolutely. Yeah, we've got 14 colleges and schools that undergraduates can join. We also have a few graduate schools, graduate only schools. We have a med school, law school, school of pharmacy. But, yeah, very vast, over 170 different areas of study.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. To listeners, this is part of the opportunity of a flagship state university, is you have this enormous intellectual diversity in one place. Yeah.
Charlotte, you're not the admission guru from Vermont State, but you've taught. Tell us a little bit about what you do in the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont.
Charlotte Albright:
Well, I moved to the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont, which by the way, is the northeast corner of the state, but we think of ourselves as a sovereign nation, I think.
Lee Coffin:
(laughs)
Charlotte Albright:
And when I moved here as a radio reporter, I always loved teaching journalism. And I was surprised to learn that what was then Lyndon State College, that was in Lyndonville, Vermont, where I live, had a top-notch television studies program. I was from radio; I wanted to stretch my skills as well. I came in and taught some radio, and also some online journalism in that program. But I got to say, I was amazed by how great it was. That's because they had a state-of-the-art studio. They were, in fact, the community network, the cable network. Every single day students did their own television show. And they weren't doing college news, they were doing community news. We sent them out to accidents. They covered government. I was teaching in that program. Sadly, that program not as big as it was when I got there, partly because journalism schools are seeing a decline in enrollment.
But the nice thing about state colleges is that when one balloon gets a bit smaller, another one sometimes expands. I would say that Vermont State University, which is now five campuses, they used to all be separate state colleges, but a lot of these state colleges form universities. They did it in Maine as well. There are five campuses, but they're all small. If you go to one of our campuses, you're going to a really small school with a really good faculty student ratio. The students that I taught, there were six of them or eight of them, and they all got great jobs in journalism. You're seeing them on local television stations. And the other big flagship program there is meteorology. Chances are, if you see Jim Cantore, you're seeing one of our alums on The Weather Channel. These schools do specialize in that hands-on learning.
Lee Coffin:
Hands-on. And also, I love that you're giving us a more intimate example that a state university doesn't have to be huge. And I would pitch back to Ramon and Erin, there are probably schools within your campuses that are also tiny. You've got student bodies that dwarf mine, but I'm going to guess in any one of your schools or colleges, Charlotte's description of meteorology and journalism are replicated even where you work. You've got big campus, small programs.
Erin Bernard:
Yes. And besides the school or college, it's even major-based some of them. Like I mentioned before, we have over 90 different majors. They're not all full of thousands and thousands of students. Yeah, we do have some variation in that. And I think that when people are looking at schools, it's all dependent on what they want. Even between UMass and UT, they're almost double our size. And depending on where you are in the country, we always joke that when we're outside of New England, people are like, "Oh, that's not that big." And then in New England, people are like, "That's so big." And it's just what they're used to, what their own state school is. And people have different things that they're looking for in a school and the state universities really span that. It's not a one size fits all.
Ramon Blakely:
Yeah. One of the things that I say quite a bit, and I think it's really true on many of our campuses when you're talking about flagships, is that there are always opportunities to make that larger institution smaller, whether it's through honors programs or majors or special programs and opportunities. And when you got a campus like UT Austin, you may find that your area of the campus is your community. And you may never go over to the College of Business because that's not a part of your world. You know that it exists and you benefit from being on a campus that offers these different opportunities, but every day your coffee shop, your classes, your residence hall is in that corner of the world. And so, students are able to really have that experience, but then they can flip the switch and go sit with 99,000 of their friends and cheer on the Longhorn football team for a game and see how big this thing really is.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. you get the best of both. And as I'm listening to you say that, Ramon, I'm reminded of... My nephew attended Colorado State and I visited him in Fort Collins a couple years ago, and he said, "Let me take you around campus." And that's exactly what I saw. He was an engineer. The engineering school was his little hub. But as we went around campus I thought, there's a lot of little campuses knitted together in this thing called CSU. I think for a lot of people, they think a state university, it's going to be so big, it's impersonal. And that's false. It could be as tiny or as big as you make it, and you could mix and match as you go.
Thank you for those descriptions. I think it's really helpful to give people a way of understanding that within larger state universities there are also like microclimates, to use the meteorology example again. Where you've got different ways of having an identity and experience even within the bigger.
But let's talk a bit about just a pragmatic part of applying to a state university. And that distinction is going to be in state versus out-of-state. Because I think for a lot of students, you grew up in New England, you think, "I want to go to UVA." Okay, you're applying as an out-of-state student to the University of Virginia. Versus, you grew up in Virginia, you've got William and Mary and Virginia Tech and UVA. Let's start with in state. What are the guidelines for in state admissions?
Erin Bernard:
Like all of our answers, it's going to depend on-
Lee Coffin:
It'll depend. Yeah.
Erin Bernard:
... the state, because we all have different goals of in state versus out-of-state. And really the only one that I'm an expert on is UMass Amherst, but I have been around long enough where I've heard things about other states and the way that their percentages go as far as percentage of in state and out-of-state. And I know there are some states that have mandates on what their percentages have to be. We are not one of those states, so we don't operate in that, at least yet. I'm sure states can change their minds whenever they want, but we don't have any state mandate. Our in state students, there's no difference in how you apply as an in state or out-of-state student, so the application process really is the same.
Lee Coffin:
Ramon, is that true at Texas?
Ramon Blakely:
We have not only mandates, but legislative mandates. And there's a number of schools that are very similar to us where the state legislature says that this is the cap that you could have for out-of-state students. And then there's also many schools where there isn't a mandate, but it's expected that you're going to stay in the good graces of your state Congress and not exceed whatever that imaginary line is, but handshake line is. But for the state, for Texas, our incoming class has to be 90% Texans and only 10% non-residents. It does make it more competitive.
Similar to my colleague, Erin, there isn't a different admissions process. There are different admissions outcomes. Obviously, with having a 90, 10% split, students in the state of Texas are also eligible for what's called automatic admission if they graduate within a percentage that we set. And we're the only institution that gets to set that percentage, all the other schools in Texas, it's like top 10%, but for us it is top 5%.
Lee Coffin:
Of their senior class.
Ramon Blakely:
Of their senior class. If they graduate, and if they're in a ranking school, so that sets that, they can gain automatic admission to the institution. There's a law that says that 75% of our incoming freshman class has to be through the automatic admissions process. There's a lot of balancing and measuring for the enrollment management folks here at UT Austin to make sure that we're in compliance there.
But again, it is important to note though that while only 10% can be non-Texas residents, so that also includes international students, that is a very important 10%. Because we obviously want to see people come here, and definitely from the Northeast, from the West Coast, and add to the rigor and the conversation in the classroom. We really don't want to belittle the fact that it's a very strong 10%. And some of our ambassadors and our leaders on campus, some of them may not be Texas residents, but when they're here, everybody's a Longhorn.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. It's so interesting to hear you describe the compliance metrics you must follow. As you were saying that, Erin was mouthing, "Wow." That you've got 90% of your class from Texas, 75% of that 90 has to be through the top 10% rule, and then the other 10%. It's just a very different job than I have. And Erin, very different than what you're doing.
Erin Bernard:
Yeah. We have state mandates for sure on some of the stuff that we do. The part that got me was the 75% from the direct admit program. I was just immediately trying to think of how you keep all of that straight. But there are some things that the state mandates for us as well that we share with people. One example is the class requirements to be minimally qualified. The classes you need in high school, that comes from the state. For example, the one that is the most commonly not met is four years of math with math in your senior year. That's a state mandate. We also-
Lee Coffin:
Can I ask a follow-up on that? A student applying to the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, by state guideline has to have four years of mathematics in high school.
Erin Bernard:
Yes.
Lee Coffin:
And if they have three, what happens?
Erin Bernard:
It depends. If they have three, because they have exhausted all of the math options at their school, that's okay. We also do have a small percentage that we are allowed to take that don't meet state minimums. And since it's not just classes, it's GPA with test scores, if they have them. And there's lots of other things as well that they have to meet, we can decide this student's going to be fine, especially if they're not an in state student. The in state schools have adapted, since that is part of the requirement. I'm sure, in Texas, lots of schools do rank their students now because they want them to be able to be eligible. The state school or the schools in our state do tend to adapt to what our requirements are. In state, we're very rarely seeing somebody who doesn't meet those. But out-of-state, we might be a little bit more like, "Well, this is a really great student, they're not going to struggle on math. We can see that pretty clearly from their transcript and they can be one of our exceptions."
Lee Coffin:
But you're raising a really important news you could use moment. Because if you're a high school junior about to pick your senior courses, and you're thinking about state universities, the homework is, for the places you're pondering, do they have these rules that you... If you're thinking of finishing Spanish after Spanish three, and maybe the rule is four years of foreign language, you better take Spanish four. Charlotte, does this sound familiar where you've been teaching now?
Charlotte Albright:
No, I was going to say, don't get scared people, because not all universities have these entrance requirements. But as far as how wide is our door open, it's open very wide. And I found as a teacher there, some of my students were not quite prepared for college, and some of my students could have gone to Dartmouth. And if you put those two kinds of students in one class, you get a really exciting learning environment because they learn from each other. You can't really generalize that much on state colleges. Some of those really top-of-their-class students are there because that's what they can afford. And some of the students who need help are there because that's where they're going to get it, because there's so much tutorial support.
Frankly, state colleges cannot afford to lose students. Once we take them—much of our income is tuition driven, we don't have huge endowments—so we've got to keep them. And to keep them, we got to support them. That's another thing that I think, if you're thinking about state colleges that you're a little worried about whether you're ready for college, there are some state colleges that are going to make sure you do well.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Ramon, is there a comparable set of requirements at UT?
Ramon Blakely:
It's top 5% for UT right now, but for the other public universities, it's top 10% automatic admission. There's a core curriculum that we require. There's also some other things that fall into play. If a student is interested in studying engineering or environmental science, or in the Jackson School of Geosciences, there's an expectation for calculus readiness. And so, in order for students to be considered for those programs, they have to meet a benchmark just to be considered. Now, it isn't necessarily that you meet that benchmark and you're automatically admitted, but in order for a consideration, you've got to meet that.
And of course, just like other institutions when it comes to the College of Fine Arts, there are audition requirements. Lots of different requirements that are more geared towards either the school or the major. But in terms of the state requirements, there are state requirements in terms of types of high school graduation plans, but that only applies to Texans, but we try to take that requirement that's for Texans and we make sure that we're also applying that to our out-of-state and our international students that are applying here.
Lee Coffin:
I'm listening to this and putting myself in an applicant's shoes or dad's shoes.
Ramon Blakely:
Oh, yeah.
Lee Coffin:
And I'm saying, this is more complicated than I appreciated as somebody who works at a liberal arts college where we do not do what you're both describing. What's the resource to help a family navigate this? Ideally, the answer is go to your guidance counselor and they'll help you sort it out. Great. But what if you're at a place where you say it like, "I don't know that my counselor's going to be able to do that with me."?
Erin Bernard:
It's a give or take. Yeah, you could say it's more complicated, but it's not really. As you're looking for classes, you might say, "I'm looking at schools that have a 10% acceptance rate." You're going to need to make sure you're taking four years of a language and you have your honors and APs. Every school needs its own thing, and ours is just a little different. But all of the information is on our website if you're somebody who maybe just wants to do the research on your own. Yes, guidance counselors are first choice if that's the right option for you, but we also are happy to help. And a lot of us are in your schools, we visit, we're at college fairs, we're an email, phone call away, very much happy to help if you have questions.
If you're looking at a list and you're thinking, I need to pick my classes, so you'd rather the research be a little bit more on your own. And via the internet, I think there's a lot of good information on our websites. And then if you have more questions or something's not making sense, reaching out and clarifying is always welcome.
Lee Coffin:
It's interesting as I'm listening, because majors are important, as you're both describing your campuses. And Charlotte too. I think you're all saying similar things around the intentionality of what you hope to study, and which part of the university or college will do that.
Charlotte Albright:
On the other hand, Lee, I would say that for the student who is coming out of high school and not at all clear on what their major should be, a state system's also great because there's so much there to explore. There's so much diversity, at least in the place that I have taught. I've had students walk into meteorology and, frankly, they're not going to handle it. Once they find out how hard physics is, they're out of there. But there are many other places that they land. And there's so many places to land at a state university that I wouldn't discourage somebody who felt that they needed to explore a little bit before they knew what they wanted.
Lee Coffin:
Okay.
Ramon Blakely:
Yeah, I was just going to speak to your question. I think you're talking about academic fit and major availability. Public flagships, state universities typically offer broad programs, a breadth of broad programs and high demand majors. But those majors, particularly at a place like UT, and I would imagine also at UMass, may be more selective than the university overall. For us explicitly, that admission decision is tied to both the university and to a specific major. And I think this is an important point for families to consider, given the breadth of universities and colleges that are out there, because there certainly are places where you are encouraged to explore. And you're forbidden from choosing a major. You're admitted to the university. Whereas, there are also places like UT Austin where that expectation is you've done that exploration and you've narrowed down at least on a college where you want to focus.
When we talk about undeclared at UT, you're undeclared within the College of Natural Sciences. You're deciding between biochemistry, biology, if you're going to be undeclared, but you know that within that college there's a major, versus just coming in and you're just undeclared in general.
I really appreciate you all bringing this to the forefront because a lot of students don't see that is something. And I've worked prior, I've worked at a public liberal arts institution, I've worked at a private Catholic institution, and the philosophy was completely different. The beauty is there are lots of opportunities that are available to students, and knowing what that looks like in these different contexts is very important. Thank you for bringing that up.
Lee Coffin:
No, of course. Let's talk about affordability, because I think that's one of the ways many people think, "Oh, state university is going to be a much more affordable option." And I think it often is, at least in state. But I would say to families, you're underselling the state university if you think of it just as the discount way of higher ed. Because I think what you've just heard the three of my colleagues describe are these really rich academic and cultural experiences that give you such a diverse menu of options. There's that. But often it is the more affordable option.
Let's talk about affordability. First for juniors and their parents who are just starting to go forward and think about, what's realistic? How do I make this higher education an opportunity that we can digest? What do you both say to the parents of high achieving kids who might be resisting a state university as a place to explore?
Erin Bernard:
Yes, I agree with you, obviously, that we have some amazing things going on on our campus. One of the things we talked about is being a research university, and with that brings so many opportunities to be on the cutting edge of real world issues, problems, solutions. I talked a little bit earlier about the opportunities available to you as a student at a large university. And I talk about this all the time, because I think that one of the things that I missed looking at schools... I didn't go to a large school, I went to a small liberal arts school. And one of the things that I think I missed when thinking about large schools is that we have to have a lot of things for our many, many students. Whether that's majors, classes, activities, resources. We have to have a lot of things to serve a lot of different populations.
As Charlotte said, we don't just have one type of student who comes to our campus. It's really wide range of students who come, so we have to have all of these things that will make them happy and make them be successful here. Then you as an individual student have all of that at your fingertips. You can really cultivate your own experience, something that you're interested in based on your own wants and needs. And I think that's pretty special. I always use the example of your roommate could be a biology major and you could be a biology major, and you could have two completely different experiences here. And I think that if that environment gets you excited, you should be looking at places like us.
Ramon Blakely:
I think it's important to also note that families, and specifically families, should try to understand cost of attendance beyond just tuition. You've got budgeting that should include things like housing, food, books, transportation, personal expenses. I think that's something that I'm hearing my colleagues who work directly with students and putting together college lists, they're having those conversations with parents, with families about, okay, what are you looking for to be able to afford? What can the family afford? Let's build this list so that it makes sense and so that we don't get all of these decisions and then we realize that this is not something that's going to be viable.
Charlotte Albright:
Sometimes the proof is in the job market. For example, at Vermont State College, Vermont State University now, my son-in-law teaches outdoor recreation. His students get jobs pretty quickly as outdoor guides, as working in ski industry. My daughter teaches animation. Those people get jobs right away too. There are only 5,000 students there. The tuition for a standard program per year there for in state is about $11,000. And for out-of-state, it's $22,000, and we're really trying to keep that affordable. Students tend to be willing to make a sacrifice. And we don't have a lot of scholarships like Dartmouth does because they have confidence that when they graduate they're either going to pay off their loans or they're going to pay their rent. You have to look at that too when you're looking at affordability, I think.
Lee Coffin:
Talk a little bit about honors colleges or honors programs, because I think that's another way a state university or college sinks more closely to the place where I have always worked, and usually smaller units. What is it? How do those options present themselves and how does a student explore them?
Ramon Blakely:
They're great opportunities for students to really work together with a very small cohort. And we're talking about cohorts of no more than 25 to 30 students, and that is a group that you navigate that whole experience with. We've got a number of different honors programs. We don't have an honors college, per se, but each of the colleges has some type of an honors experience. Some of those honors experiences come directly with scholarship opportunities as well. But certainly, opportunities to not only take a...
Obviously, if you come to UT Austin, you're going to take a challenging and rigorous experience no matter what, if you're an honors student or not, but that just takes it to that next level. And we got one of the oldest honors programs in the country. It's called the Plan Two Honors Program. And it basically is a program that combines a liberal arts experience with any of your majors, with a major. And it's been around for years. It's interesting that it's called Plan Two, because the idea in the beginning was that it was going to be something that was going to be implemented throughout the college, but it was such a rigorous curriculum that they made it into an honors program. And for these years it's been called Plan Two. It sounds like a second chance, but it's called Plan Two. The Plan Two Honors Program.
But again, no matter what you're wanting to study and wherever you're studying, honors programs provide you with the opportunity to just take it that much further. Sometimes you're going to write a thesis paper. Sometimes you're going to do what looks like a dissertation, but you have these experiences that will add to your resume. And a lot of these students that are studying in some of these honors programs have their sights set on graduate school, medical school, law school. These are all enhancements that really show the rigor of your academic experience.
Erin Bernard:
Yeah, I'd agree with all of that. We do have an honors college, but it sounds very similar to what UT is talking about. And I think it's really a specific type of student who ends up being getting the most out of it. We have lots of very smart, fast-moving students who just, that's not for them. They want to do their own thing, have their options open. They can still graduate with honors, so they might choose that route. And then we have those students who really are attracted by things like the thesis or capstone project. Or they really just want to get into the discussion. They want this to be a very high level thought-provoking, "I have a lot to add type of situation." And I think those students end up really thriving in the Honors College.
Ours is about 10% of our incoming class. And we have options to transfer in, which I think is always important to say, because some people will... That's the end all be all day. It's like Honors College or bust. And I always feel like that's not the right way to look at it. But we always call it a cherry on top of your UMass experience. It isn't your UMass experience, it's an extra.
Lee Coffin:
I've learned a lot. As we wrap the episode, I wonder if each of you would give advice to a high school junior and parents about how to consider the campuses you represent.
Erin Bernard:
One thing that I wanted to mention really quickly that could lead into that is that we've talked about our campuses being the flagship universities. Both of our states have lots of state schools. Public education, and I can maybe just speak for Massachusetts, but I think we have some really great public higher education, and that goes beyond just UMass Amherst. The state itself does a great job of giving options to people who want a great public education, and that doesn't always end with UMass Amherst. I think there's lots of different options throughout the state that can fit different budgets, different academic levels, different major wants and needs. I think that comprehensive public education environment is something that we're really proud of.
I have so much advice for juniors, so it's hard to pare it down. But I guess if I'm really relating it more to UMass Amherst, one of the things that I see a lot is, especially within your school that's in your backyard, people overlook the visit because they feel like they've been there for a tournament or they've driven through, or they've gone to a concert there, or something has happened. And I'm always encouraging students, you have to visit. You have to do the visit, because that's really when you start to envision, what would it be like to be a student here? Not just what's the campus like because I played lacrosse there one time. It's, do I belong here as a student? Can I see myself in these classes? Can I see myself at these dining facilities? And then you can really get to know a little bit more about what you're looking for.
And at this point in your junior year, you're really trying to decide, what am I looking for in a broader sense? What is exciting to me and what is not so much exciting to me? And writing those things down so that when you see the connections between the colleges you're visiting, you start to be like, "Oh, this is the thing that a college has that gets me really excited." Or, "This is this thing that makes me nervous and then doesn't necessarily make me want to go there." And then you have a better idea of how to make your list.
Lee Coffin:
Thank you. Ramon?
Ramon Blakely:
I love what Erin said, so I'm not going to repeat anything. I think she nailed it in terms of the search. But just in the state of Texas, we've got over 37 public universities. We've got seven university systems. I'm not just trying to tell you all that Texas is big, and that everything's bigger in Texas. What I'm trying to say is this college admissions opportunity nationwide is big. There are lots of great opportunities out there.
Erin talked about building the list and understanding your motivations about choosing schools. I'll get more to the specifics in terms of the application process and what you should want to learn about it. Understanding, we talked about this earlier, some of the laws and regulations that are around public universities, some of what that means in terms of admissions, what that means in terms of cost, and understanding that.
And then this is one of my big pet peeves, and that is deadlines. You're going to be hit with so many deadlines. What I would encourage you to do in your junior year is understand what these different admission pathways mean. I want to warn you that there's a resource that's out there that isn't always right, and that's called social media and Reddit. Utilize the folks that work in college admissions, either your school counselors, utilize the folks that are actually doing this work time and time again because they're great resources.
And I think this is also a great opportunity for you to improve your writing. And again, this isn't all schools, but many schools in this space require some type of essay or some type of way for you to show your writing skills. The more you write, the better you write. Also, get used to that. And then understand what testing policy is, what test optional means at this institution, what testing required means. There's another one. There's no tests. Test blind, there we go. Understand all these different things.
And I know that you have to do this one time, but it's important. A strong application connects you with an academic program of choice, a major. It demonstrates your impact, your character through the activities that you've been involved in. Your writing adds context to all of that, and clarity that we can't find on a transcript. Utilize all of these things to showcase who you are, turn it in on time, and enjoy your college experience because you're going to land somewhere great. Have fun in this process. Enjoy this process, because this is something that's going to lead to even more growth in your future.
Lee Coffin:
Amen. Charlotte?
Charlotte Albright:
Well, the word I would grab from all of our other episodes is the word "vibe." The word "vibe" applies to state universities, and I think people don't think it does. They think that somehow private universities, Ivy League schools have vibes, but state universities don't. They do. Each campus is different. Each state university is different. Each state is different. Yes, visit. And, yes, know yourself so you know what vibe you like and what vibe would make you a good learner. There's a campus in the Vermont State University system here in Lyndonville that is really rural. The same university system, you could go to school near Burlington, which is a small city. Understand there's a lot of diversity within state university systems and state college systems. Try to figure out who you are and then figure out what the match is, because state university systems are not alike.
Lee Coffin:
No, I think that's vivid from this conversation. There's a lot to discover and see how it feels. Ramon, Erin, Charlotte, thank you for joining me on Admission Beat for this first ever conversation specifically about state options. And I'm really grateful for your wisdom and your good humor as always.
Erin Bernard:
Thank you.
Charlotte Albright:
Thank you.
Lee Coffin:
Thank you.
Ramon Blakely:
Thanks for having us.
Lee Coffin:
Next week, Charlotte will be back, and we are going to have our annual check-in of admission headlines. And Charlotte will review her newsfeed and quiz me on some of the things that are in the papers. And I will opine and offer some guidance about when to pay attention and when to look the other way. That's next week. For now, this is Lee Coffin from Dartmouth College. Thanks for listening.