Season 4: Episode 11 Transcript
Navigating Thanksgiving Queries from Curious Relatives
Lee Coffin:
From Hanover, New Hampshire, I'm Lee Coffin, Dartmouth's dean of admissions and financial aid, and this is the Admissions Beat. And I am a host with laryngitis, so bear with me as I frog my way through this episode. But that's what happens when you talk for a living; sometimes your voice says, "I'm taking the day off."
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We are coming into the holiday season. We passed Halloween and all the mischief, and this week in the United States is Thanksgiving, when families gather around for a turkey-centric feast and relatives far and wide gather at grandma's house, as often as not, and conversations break out. And when there's a high school senior in the house, inevitably those conversations turn towards, "So, how's your college search going, dot, dot, dot?" And we thought we'd have an episode to help our friends navigate those curious relatives—we'll give them the benefit of the doubt— those well-intentioned relatives who tiptoe into the conversation about college at a moment when the senior probably wants to talk about anything but. So when we come back, "Navigating Thanksgiving Dinner with Curious Relatives. We'll see you in a minute.
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In my view, what Thanksgiving meal would be complete without my pals Jen Simons and Matt Hyde returning for their innumerable appearance on Admissions Beat? Jen Simons, the director of Bright Horizons/College Coach. Hello, Jen.
Jennifer Simons:
Hi, Lee. Good to be back.
Lee Coffin:
This is like your third or fourth time, so you're almost the recurring guest, like on the Hollywood Squares. Like Phyllis Diller in the upper square.
Jennifer Simons:
That hits a little too close to home, but I'll take it. Thanks.
Lee Coffin:
There you go. And Matthew Hyde is the dean of admissions and financial aid at Trinity College. Hi, Matt, nice to see you
Matt Hyde:
Happy Thanksgiving, Lee and Jen, you are an absolute star.
Lee Coffin:
So as we think about Thanksgiving dinner, here's my first question. Who has a trickier task, the person cooking the turkey or the senior in high school who is the turkey?
Matt Hyde:
I see what you did there. I like that. I like that. Oh, the turkey's the target.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, unless they get pardoned by the president. When I was thinking about who should join me in this conversation, the two of you came to mind because you both play off each other really well. But Jen is one of those guests that can go off on any direction with a moment's notice. So I thought this is Thanksgiving dinner. Let's see what happens. But so when I pitch the title to both of you, what comes to mind right out of the gate?
Jennifer Simons:
So I will always say this, I firmly believe that the college admissions process is going to, if you are open to it, teach you lessons that you can use later in your life. So I think this is certainly not going to be the last difficult Thanksgiving you'll have, assuming it's difficult. There are going to be a lot of questions. Fast forward to when you're a senior in college and the questions become, do you have a job? What are you doing next? I promise you you might not feel that way right now, but it is going to feel a lot more loaded in four years from now. I'm going to even fast forward a little further, and the questions are going to be, when are you and your partner going to get married? I might be the person, I'm going to be very likely the person that's going to be asking that question, because I'm really nosy.
So when are you tying the knot? When's the first baby coming? So I think that what you need to do is look at this as a way to perfect kind of an elevator speech/ mind your own business in the nicest way possible. Go into this experience prepared with your boundaries, not necessarily barriers, but boundaries so that you can protect, if that's what you want, the way you're feeling and your sort of personal life and not share too much. And I think that it depends on obviously who's asking you the question. But I do think it's a very good idea not to overshare because you don't know what kind of news you're going to get. And if you are disappointed, it sort of stinks to be sharing bad news, whereas you could always tell someone good news. You know what I mean?
Lee Coffin:
Yeah.
Jennifer Simons:
I think that it's helpful to have an idea of what you want to say before you go into dinner.
Lee Coffin:
So this is an opportunity to develop boundary setting skills for nosy Aunt Jen showing up in your house, pinching your cheek, and interrogating you.
Jennifer Simons:
Oh, 100%.
Lee Coffin:
100%. So Matt, if Jen is the nosy aunt, you are the kind and chill uncle sitting in the sofa saying, "Hey, let's watch a football game." So what's your take on the meal that's unfolding and the conversations that are happening?
Matt Hyde:
Well, one, I love Thanksgiving. In my mind it's about family, friends, fun and gluttony, which I am a sinner from time to time and very gluttonous, so I love this holiday, but I acknowledge it creates really strange moments and it asks a lot of a 16, 17, 18-year-olds to deploy a diplomatic voice and presence. We like to think that those sweet, fun uncles are leading with care and love for you when they're asking that question. Or are they asking for their daughter who wants to know what their cousin's up to and is trying to sort of weasel their way into sort of some good info and intel? You just don't know.
And I really appreciate Jen's response. Be prepared for that question and don't be the deer in headlights. You can't, in my mind, respond to a beloved family member and say, "None of your business." But you can find your diplomatic voice. This whole experience of searching for and applying to college is about finding your voice. And here's a moment for you to use it, but understand that these relatives are coming hopefully with care and with love, but quite honestly, I think they're trying to fill airtime and don't know what else to ask you, and that could be part of it.
Lee Coffin:
Well, it's true. It is sort of the default question you ask a high school senior, especially when you know college is the next step. It's the icebreaker question. It's like, "So what's happening? What's going on? How's your college search going?" But as we tee this up, I am hoping listeners don't say, "Oh God, I wasn't even thinking about Thanksgiving being stressful." And here the three of us are saying, "Get ready, kiddo." But let's set the scene. So families coming together, you haven't seen people in a while perhaps, and the, "So how's it going?" Question unfolds. What are the nature of the questions that might pop that a senior should be expecting or thinking about, how am I going to answer that?
Jennifer Simons:
I think that the relatives that you haven't seen in a long time are going to just dive right in with, "So where did you apply? When do you hear? What's your first choice?" If they're knowledgeable, which I think most people now in this day and age feel that by reading the Times or the Journal or they have a sense of what's going on. "Did you apply early decision, early action? What's your strategy?" That type of thing. Or the flip side of that, they might have very antiquated information, so they might ask you, "Did you apply to my alma mater?"
And I'm just going to call on Trinity, because we have two representatives here. Lee's experience applying to Trinity from high school was very different from what a student's experience would be now. So I actually, I'm sorry, I want to talk almost more to the parents than the students if that's okay too.
Lee Coffin:
Sure.
Jennifer Simons:
So I just want, or the parents or the adults I should say, I want them to remember first and foremost that their experience was different. We've talked about that a lot on this show, but I think they're going to come right out of the gate and say, "Where did you apply? Why? What do you think your chances are?" At least that's what I would say…
Lee Coffin:
No, I think that is the logical question: "Where have you been looking? Where have you applied?" And I think you mentioned early decision, and I think that's maybe the stickiest topic for a student in late November because early decision candidates, early action candidates have filed an application. There's no response yet. And so you're in this limbo between, I've made an application, I don't have a response yet. I don't really want to have a second opinion on whether that was a wise choice or not or whether I get in or not. But that's sort of the parallel I think of that early question, "Did you apply somewhere early?" And you say, "Yes." And the next question is, "Oh, where?"
And then that invites a comment. I watched my niece go through this a few years ago where the question came, she gave the answer and her other uncle said, "You could have done better than that." And I thought, "Can I jump over the table and smack you?" Because it totally set my niece off on a twirl around "did I make a mistake?" And then I had to say "pass the cranberry," not throw it at him and kind of get her back on track around "you made a really informed decision about what felt right to you as your next step. Own it and don't let other uncle get in your head when the decision's already been made."
Matt Hyde:
I would argue this is a cool time for you to turn what could be an awkward, stressful response into a worthwhile moment for you. Rather than reply to "here's where I applied early decision," [say] "here's what I'm excited about when I'm looking at these colleges and why." It's a way for you to begin to articulate what was it about these two, three, four institutions that got you all fired up? And just use that moment and that could add some clarity as you're trying to decipher, well, which ones am I really excited about? So I think you could harvest that moment and make it worthwhile as opposed to being a stressful, "I need to respond to you." You don't owe that aunt or uncle a thing. You can say, "I'm excited about these colleges. I'm looking forward to what's come." And you leave it at that.
Lee Coffin:
What if it doesn't end there though? What if someone says, "Oh, tell me more about where you're planning." I like the idea of flipping it and focusing on what you learned during the discovery part and how the list... So if you didn't apply early, this is still an open question. You've got deadlines coming, you haven't hit them yet. So that may be an invitation to say back to family, "Well, my list is shaping up to be eight to 10 places. These are still in contention. Do you know anything about them?" Invite them to offer soft feedback.
Matt Hyde:
Answer a question with a question. I mean, in the end, people ask you questions oftentimes want to talk about themselves anyway, so I think you can turn it right back at them. And then you're scot-free.
Jennifer Simons:
Can I just add one thing to what Matt just said though? I think also in addition to trying to flip the switch a little bit, and like you said, Lee, everybody loves to talk about themselves. One of the things I still love to talk about is how different the application process is from when I applied or you applied. And so if you want to turn it around and say, "Do you remember where you applied? I bet you didn't apply early decision. It wasn't as popular then from what I understand." I 100% agree with Matt. People want to talk about themselves and I think the admissions process has changed so much that it's actually, it can be an interesting general topic of conversation that shifts the focus away from you to something instead of let's say politics, which nobody should be talking about right now at the Thanksgiving table, because you'll lose your appetite. But I think that that's another strategy.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Well, how about seniors who are still applying? So the huge number of people who don't go somewhere early, they're still pondering the final list, the question of affordability, they're still working on essays, maybe they have to schedule some interviews. Are those areas of conversation that could be useful?
Matt Hyde:
I think they could be. I mean, as a senior in high school right now, you are, if you're going to college next year, you're 285 days away from college. So a little bit of stress-inducing questions might be good for you to kick it up a gear and realize like, "Wait, I do need to start thinking about these things." Acknowledge it's none of their business, but if it creates a moment for you where you can have some airtime and begin to articulate what you're looking for and what you're excited about, game on. I mean, I think young people, they don't need more adults in this whole experience, but they can benefit from their guidance. I mean, I'm hoping that your family knows you better than you think. So as you're thinking through how you're going to capture yourself in the confines of a common application, maybe they can be helpful. So if it's a trusted dear friend or family member, use them as a sounding board. Share some thoughts on what you're beginning to think to write about and get that feedback, use that moment.
Jennifer Simons:
I think that's a fabulous idea. And I tell students to do that at the beginning of the process like, "How would you describe me if you had to describe me in three words?" The "three words" is a question on the University of Southern California application. Have them help you with your homework. And just from the most practical standpoint, the Thanksgiving weekend is often a time for students to hunker down because they don't generally have homework, hopefully, from school. It's a nice break time. And it's not like December break where the pressure's really on because those apps that you haven't utilized yet are due on January 1st, presumably. So I think that you could actually turn it around like Matt had said and say, "I have a couple more essays to do and I have to write about a really meaningful moment in my life. What would you write about? Or what do you remember from taking me to the zoo when I was a kid?" Or whatever it is.
Matt Hyde:
Yeah, "How cute was I? How awesome was I as a kid?"
Lee Coffin:
No, I think that's great because you're interviewing them about the narrative you might construct. You're not saying write it for me, but you're saying here are some of the questions like Dartmouth said, celebrate my nerdy side. What might that look like?
Jennifer Simons:
I think it's actually a really good conversation starter. "How would you answer the question, Uncle Lee? Do you think you're a nerd?" Or, "Which question would you answer? These are my choices. I have these choices from these colleges, and which one would you answer? How would you answer that question?" And you're deflecting, but you're also getting some good ideas potentially.
Matt Hyde:
I love that. It's honestly like own the moment. Just acknowledge that people are going to asking me questions. You can say, listen, I'm going to spend 15 minutes either at the dinner table or during cocktail hour, and I'm going to own the room and say, "All right, everybody, here's my deal. Yeah, I'm applying to college. Here's what I'm excited about. Here's what I'm looking forward to. Here's what I've learned about myself and here's what I'm thinking about in this moment. Could use your help and support." And take the power away from them where they're not going to ambush you. Just own it and corral that moment at a certain space. And then I think you're, again, in good shape and don't have to worry about it down the line.
Jennifer Simons:
Matt, it's so interesting because there's nothing inherently wrong with talking about colleges or asking about colleges. I mean, that's what we do. That's what we talk about all the time. But the truth is is that you have to be cautious, again, not to be a pessimist, but you don't know yet where you're going to get accepted. Certainly if you've applied to places that have acceptance rates like Trinity, like Dartmouth, where your chances are just as good or bad as anyone else's. And so the self-preservation doesn't come from a place of, a lot of kids want to talk about where they've applied. A lot of kids want to talk about this process. This is a really big deal. And we're not saying this to minimize it. We're saying it for some protection. So when they call you or your parents later and say, "Did Jen get into Dartmouth?" "No, no, she didn't." Protect yourself.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, no, I think that's right. And I like the idea of using the family gathering as an informational huddle almost.
Matt Hyde:
I like that, yeah.
Lee Coffin:
It's football weekend, so I kind of went there.
Matt Hyde:
Yeah, you did.
Lee Coffin:
But informational huddle to say, "Okay, let's think about the story I'm trying to tell. And I've got a few essays. I've got an interview coming up and I'm thinking I'd like to highlight X, Y, and Z." Discuss and see how that goes. Because you get feedback from teachers and counselors. Parents I think are more in this day-to-day than other relatives. But you might have cousins who are broadly in your age group who are a year behind or a year or two ahead who's like, "Oh, I was there. Let me be reassuring." So cousins who might already be in college, this is your role to jump in with your cousin who's a senior and say, "Here's my two cents from the other side of this journey. And it's been great, don't worry so much. Everybody passed the potatoes and let's get back to other topics."
Jen, I want to go back to something you said a minute ago, which is off the topic of navigating curious relatives, but it's Thanksgiving-themed, which is, you have a window of time to work on the application. And I think that was a really good piece of news you could use for students looking ahead to the January 1st deadline and the week between Christmas, Hanukkah, New Year's, a lot going on and writing that last set of essays or short responses might not be what you would like to be doing, but this weekend might be a good time to say, let's get organized and start drafting some things a month before it's due. Is that-
Jennifer Simons:
Oh, absolutely. And the other thing is that if you have applied early action or early decision, those deadlines have passed with enough time in between the beginning of November and Thanksgiving for you to catch your breath a little bit. I'm tempted to go back with my students on November 2nd and say, "Oh, well, we got all the EA and EDs out, let's start writing." And they're like, "Go away." Well, they probably are like, go away from me anyway, but they're like, "Do not talk to me. I need a break." And you've had really enough of a break and the ability to go back to your schoolwork and sit down with your own thoughts during Thanksgiving.
Additionally, if you fast forward to that winter vacation, Christmas week, if you have gotten some not great news, you're not going to be in the mood to write more essays. I'm not saying you have to during the Christmas week. You're going to be sad potentially. I think that while the ball is still ostensibly in your court, using that Thanksgiving time as the time to write essays is going to feel a lot better. You're going to be so relieved. And then you can actually enjoy yourself or do whatever you have to do over Christmas break to regroup.
Matt Hyde:
There's some energy that can be sort of, again, harvested from this gathering. It's a friendly audience in most cases.
Lee Coffin:
It is a friendly audience.
Matt Hyde:
They care about you and they're rooting for you. So draw confidence from that for sure, but also bask in the glow of it in the next couple of days. And to Jen's point, harness that to think deeply about who you are, who you are in your family, in your community, and then put pen to paper. You might be surprised about what that sort of experience over the course of the Thanksgiving holiday inspires.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, that's right. How about parents? So you're the parent of a senior, you're sitting at the table right next to them. What's mom and dad role?
Matt Hyde:
I would say deflect and protect.
Lee Coffin:
Deflect and protect. Be linebackers.
Matt Hyde:
Yeah. No, I mean it depends on the energy of my child. If he or she were fired up to say, "I can't wait to articulate what I'm looking at and why I'm excited about these places." And I've felt like they had a really healthy, thoughtful college search, game on, I wouldn't deflect and protect. But if I had a nervous, anxious being in my house, I would pull my soon-to-be guests aside and say, "Listen, we will share information when we're ready to share it. For now, let's talk about other things."
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, I think that's actually a really interesting topic. You've got a senior who's been preoccupied, nervous, distracted, and a parent could say to the other relatives before the event even starts, "This is kind of off topic. Let's not ask her or him what's going on. And if she brings it up, hooray, if it doesn't come up, let's not go there."
Jennifer Simons:
Now that I've worked on the other side of things, I feel like it's more likely to be the student saying to the relatives, "Just do me a favor, don't talk to my mother about where I've applied to school."
Lee Coffin:
Oh, funny.
Jennifer Simons:
"She's really anxious." Or it's one parent saying that about the other parent, "You know what? Can we not talk about this process, because my spouse is going to blow a gasket when they realize how much money we've already spent on application fees." Or whatever it is. I feel like the parents have so much skin in this game that they're the ones often that feel like they're being judged when people opine on where their child should or shouldn't apply or whatever. So I don't know. Sometimes the kids need to protect the parents.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Thanksgiving coincides with a late moment on the admissions calendar where the discovery and application phase is winding down, the work is ramping up. And students, whether you're in a big family gathering, you're on your own with your mom or your grandma or you're just having a conversation with a teacher, this question of, "So how's your search going?" Animates the latter part of the fall.
Matt Hyde:
Yeah, I think you just decide what kind of energy you want to have around this. Do you want to share your hopefulness and excitement or do you want to be guarded and say, "This is a personal experience that I'm treasuring on my own. Thanks for your interest, but I'm going to keep it to myself."
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, that's hard to do.
Matt Hyde:
It is hard to do, but these are emerging young adults that need to get comfortable articulating what you're feeling. And again, you don't owe anybody any response if you don't want to give it.
Lee Coffin:
Well, a friend has a high school senior, and he told me that one of the hardest things about senior year is social media. It's a different kind of Thanksgiving table where it's this ongoing conversation swirling around you where people post things and comment on things and share and keeping your focus off of that at this moment when you're trying to keep your own kind of counsel, that's hard too, in a way that 10 years ago was much less so.
Matt Hyde:
Yeah. But I'm wondering what questions would we want asked of these young people at this cool moment? And there's some fun ones that I think maybe that's the opportunity for, again, if the college applicant wants to deflect, say, "Listen, I appreciate that question, but here's the one I'm actually going to answer." Whether it's, what bloopers happened in your college search? What were the funny parts? There's humor here. There's fun, there's exploration, there's an adventure that you can talk about. It doesn't have to be about what the outcome's going to be.
Jennifer Simons:
I think that the one good thing about social media now, because I poke in every once in a while, as you see kids on Instagram doing the equivalent of when they would post their rejection, their physical back in the day, kids would hang up their rejection letters at a spot, at least in my high school, you could come in and put your rejection letters up. When they get over the trauma, and I don't say that lightly. I do think it is traumatic to not get what you've pined for for a long time. It is nice to see kids being open and honest and sharing where they did and didn't get accepted. And it's not just about the victories, it seems. I mean, you certainly have a lot of kids opening those positive decisions and those things, but I've seen lots of videos where they show, "I got denied from this place and this was my GPA." So it's more realistic.
But I absolutely agree with Matt that reframing the question as a student, "Here's the question, here's what I want to tell you." Is very important. And then as an adult in this situation, maybe taking the focus off of college and to things like not, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" But how can I help you in my professional capacity if I have one? "Would you like to shadow me? Would you like to do a mock interview with me? Would you like to spend an hour talking to people in my place of work so you know what it is that I do?" You can shift the focus as well.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, no, that's good. Because I think the seniors I know every year are preoccupied with what might happen, what might not happen and sometimes reassurance is valuable. It's a word I use a lot on this pod around, I give advice to be reassuring about the college admission side of this, but family, neighbors, peers could also be reassuring to the seniors they know as this late November, December moment plays out and there's finals and papers and essays and maybe an SAT to sit for. And you've got all this stuff going on with people saying, "What are you doing? What are you are doing? What are you doing?" And that's where I think it will reappear in the spring after decisions are released. And there's going to be a lot of interest in, "Where'd you get in? Where are you going to go? What are you thinking?" But that's later.
But this is the setup to that. You have to give some thought to what places stay on the list or leave the list. How do you tell your story? How do I have an interview? And that feels uncomfortable for a lot of students who have not sat down with a stranger and had to have a conversation about me with you. We don't know each other. So talking those things through I think is really helpful too, because for almost all the adults in any of these settings, you've had a job interview of some kind, and you've had to sit with someone and answer questions that help this new person make an assessment of you, and that's a good skill as well.
Jennifer Simons:
I think it's also very helpful, again, as an adult to focus on not what you think the end result is going to be, i.e, getting accepted or deferred or denied from a college. But in my experience, there's a real lull in January, February, and March on the students' end of things. And I'm not saying you should tell them, "Okay, so now you can focus on your studies." Or something like that. But sort of what's next? What are you going to do to take care of yourself, to protect your heart or whatever it is while you're waiting for decisions to come?
Is there something that you haven't had the time to do while you were filling out all these applications? What's going to take the place of that? Do you want to read a book that you've been putting off just for fun? Or do you want to just have four hours of uninterrupted video game playing that your parents will allow you to do. What's going to replace? You're going to have more time, I guess is what I'm saying, than you've had in August, September, October, November. What is going to bring you joy to distract you also from the news that awaits?
Lee Coffin:
Yeah.
Matt Hyde:
I mean, that is found time. And unfortunately, I think a lot of young people, when they have that found time, they don't invest it as wisely as they could or should. The devices that consume them, the social media that they think inspires, influences them, becomes the easy go-to. How can we encourage this population to have it form in different ways because they're going to be beautifully served a year from now when they know how to use that quiet time really well. And again, I think it begins with that self-care and knowing that you have a role to play in deciding how you feel and how you engage.
So I love the idea of habit-forming in a very positive way, and again, claiming that time for the good, not just sort of falling back into old habits. And maybe that's a New Year's and a resolution to come as they're thinking about, if I do have this extra two or three or four hours a week, what am I doing with it? How am I investing it? Am I doing it for my own good, for my own sort of self-preservation? Am I doing it to serve others and to engage more deep in my community? Or am I watching Netflix?
Jennifer Simons:
Which I mean, you could be talking to me too, Matt. I feel like this is not just students. This is like, I have a half an hour.
Matt Hyde:
Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, no. Well, I think in the spirit of the holiday that's approaching too, holidays can also be timeouts. They are celebrations. They commemorate things. This one among the many holidays in the United States is ecumenical. Everybody kind of pauses on this one. It doesn't have a overtly religious subtext to it. And that timeout, I think is valuable. And to give yourself permission to, as a senior in high school, say, "I've been busy. I'm going to chill." And that includes back to the dinner, saying, "Let's talk about the football game that's about to happen. I need a head space clear." That's a brave thing to be able to own and do, and no one's going to push back on that.
Jennifer Simons:
I'm going to be really corny. Just one last thing and say, this is also holiday if you celebrate it for giving thanks and being grateful, and I think it's really meaningful to noodle that a little bit. And if you are applying to college, wherever that college is, you are in a position of privilege and you should think about the things that you're grateful for in your life, and also the things that you're proud of about yourself. I think that, and your family, your friends, whatever the case may be, I think that it's very, very important during this difficult process to reflect on what's good and try not to worry or focus on the things that are really challenging because you've been in that space for a long time. So especially because this is Thanksgiving, find some gratitude within yourself.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Well, I love that, Jen. That wasn't corny.
Matt Hyde:
That's not corny at all.
Lee Coffin:
No. Well, it made me think too, take a moment and thank a teacher.
Jennifer Simons:
Oh, yes, yes.
Lee Coffin:
Give thanks to, because to me, teachers are the unsung heroes of the college admission process. They write those letters, they tell great stories. They've guided you through the courses that create the grades on your transcript. In the spirit of Thanksgiving, just go up to a couple of them and say, "Thank you, Mrs. Jones, for introducing me to biology." Or whatever it is.
Matt Hyde:
Lee, who would you thank? If you think about your teachers in your day, who would you go back and thank?
Lee Coffin:
So if you're listening, Ms. Novenski, Joan Novenski was my ninth grade English teacher at Shelton High School. She left, I lost track of her. I don't know where she might be in the world. She was a young-ish teacher, but I would thank her for being the first person to recognize my talent as a writer. And as a skinny, nerdy 14-year-old sitting in her class, she kind of puffed me up and said, "Young man, you are a beautiful writer." And I remain really thankful for that jolt of confidence in something I didn't even know I was good at. And all these years later, I've been looking for her to say that to her. So maybe someone hears it and says, "Joan Novenski, oh my God." I'd also thank my drama club director, Gary Scarpa, who I know listens occasionally. So hey, Gary, for teaching me how to be on a stage and owning it. And I didn't know then that drama club was going to turn me into the hammy Dean of Admission, but I am thankful-
Matt Hyde:
It did.
Lee Coffin:
It did. But the art of public speaking, of being able to communicate in that setting that isn't always natural for people. But I think reflecting on that is a really interesting way of reframing the holiday that Jen brought us to.
Matt Hyde:
Gratitude matters, and we were in the mix of our reader training a week and a bit ago, and I asked my teammates on the admissions committee, "What are we looking for? What do we want?" And we're not looking for A minuses in algebra two, and A's in this, we're looking for a series of attributes about young people and gratitude came up. And those emerging young adults that are comfortable having gratitude and being thankful and expressing that. It's unfortunately rare, but we're looking for it. There's no doubt about it. So get comfortable with it.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Well, grateful people are humble.
Matt Hyde:
Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Often you have some humility, and those are all the qualities we're talking about. Thankfulness, gratitude, humility, nice qualities in applicants. If that sounds like you, bring it. Help us see that so that your storytelling shows us that sweet person. And then go bake a pie. That's a skillset that is always fun to learn. And that's my other secret kind of Thanksgiving thing. Every year I experiment with a new type of pie, and they're pretty good. My sister used to joke that my pies were full of twigs, because they lean a little more organic. They weren't really twigs, but they weren't syrupy, sugary pies. They were kind of-
Matt Hyde:
What are you making this year, Lee?
Lee Coffin:
I don't know. I haven't thought that far ahead.
Matt Hyde:
TBD.
Lee Coffin:
TBD. I have to get through a bunch more files that I'm reading right now. But well, Matt and Jen, thanks again for joining me on Admissions Beat for this Thanksgiving themed admission topic, and for the wisdom you shared with our listeners and families as they come in and out of gatherings, big and small, or they're sitting somewhere outside the US and are like, "What the hell's Thanksgiving? It's just Thursday here." And happy Thursday to those of you. But for those of you in the US, I hope your long weekend is restful and full of laughs and some good food and not too much turkey. I think the act of cooking in Turkey is the most painful thing I ever do in the kitchen. So I'm not really, I don't look forward to that part. But anyway, Jen, Matt, thank you.
Matt Hyde:
Thank you, Lee. That was fun.
Lee Coffin:
We'll be back next week for another edition of Admissions Beat. For now, I'm Lee Coffin from Dartmouth College. Thanks for listening.